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@larryB Yes, and so much more. The community is a tourist destination year around. Events of all flavors are in place, dependent upon the time of year. Including, Bonner's; reportedly the worlds largest Christmas themed store. I suspect 'hank' won't chastise me too much for stepping in with this info. And yes, the insurance company noted is from this community; and has been in business since 1868 (156 years). Frankenmuth
Thanks @catch22. - A nice hour + drive north when I worked in the Detroit metro area, Also known for a huge Christmas decoration store open 12-months. Remember a pleasant river cruise once on a stern-wheeler. Chicken dinners of course … Not far from the fertile Saginaw Valley agricultural area. So them chickens ought to be plenty fresh.
Excerpt is from Franklin Insurance’s webpage. Do your own due diligence if considering:
Headquartered in Frankenmuth, Michigan, and doing business in 15 states, Frankenmuth Insurance is financially sound, with $1.8 billion in assets. The company has an A.M. Best rating of “A” (Excellent).
Never heard of umbrella insurance before this thread. Upgraded today. I told the woman we were interested in balloon insurance. She was kind enough to translate.
Thanks for the education. It's always appreciated.
Right there with ya guys!. Agent called today. App is in the mail. About $80 a year . I’d never heard of one either. But the world was a much different place back when I first took out homeowners insurance in 1977.
Geez, you learn a lot here!
Edit 5/13/24 / I received the written application. I must not have understood the agent over the phone. Here’s the ditty:
- 1 Mil Umbrella - Annual cost $138 - Cost to increase homeowner liability coverage: $60 per year - Total additional annual cost to me: $198 annually - Likely I’m receiving a discount for having home and 2 vehicles with same insurer - There were 18 “yes / no” questions on the app - Things like “Do you have any pets?” and “Have you ever been party to a lawsuit?” They seemed especially interested in any powered recreational vehicles. I have none. (We pedal)
@hank Your're writing about an 'umbrella' policy, yes? I'm sure these vary by your home/auto policy liability amounts and perhaps area. Our cost is $368/year for $1 million, as a reference. South/central Michigan.
Catch - I haven’t seen the paperwork yet. They’re mailing it to me to look over. I’m thinking I might not have heard right on the phone. Could be a 6-month term. That’s how often the car insurance renews, Or perhaps the amount quoted is based on the remaining months until the homeowner’s policy renews. They did say I needed to increase the liability limit on the homeowner’s policy, but not sure how much that will add to the total cost. Yes, it’s supposed to be an umbrella policy. Yes, the agent did say $1 Mil coverage. I can understand where southern Michigan might have higher rates.
@hank Our umbrella follows the payment period for our home/auto; which is an 'annual' renewal. I can't provide a percentage number right now; but we do receive a percent discount for paying an annual lump renewal. As I recall, the options are pay monthly, quarterly, semi-annual and annual. 'Course if one can make better money with a MMKT, it might even be a deal to pay monthly and keep what will be owed in the future/until needed in a 5% MMKT. Just a thought, as one would have to do the math.
Catch - I can provide an update when I know more. Possibly the quality & coverage of such policies varies by company?
I’ve long elected to have insurance payments come out of my bank account automatically on a monthly basis. In the early days of getting a handle on my finances (when I just learning how to run an annual household budget) I went with that option because recurring payments seemed easier to manage. Today, 30 years later, it wouldn’t make any difference. But I’ve stayed with the monthly auto-payment method.
@Derf We will shop insurance again in 2025, as we have seen how switching companies (quality) for the same coverage every several years may provide a price advantage. I will note, as has been written by others here; is for the consideration of quality and proper service, if and when needed. A few neighbors in the past 2 years have had minor auto damage claims with the company we now use, and a representative was at their home the next day to take a few pics of the vehicle and fill the paperwork for a most timely process of repairs needed. The neighbors were quite pleased.
A snippet: 'How much an umbrella policy costs depends on many variables. Many of the factors that affect your home insurance and auto insurance costs may affect the cost of your umbrella policy. These could include location, the features in your home, the types of cars you drive and your claims history. The underwriting criteria for an umbrella policy can be more restrictive than an auto or home policy. Those with occupations deemed too risky or who have had liability claims in the past may not qualify for coverage.'
A longer write regarding an umbrella policy from Bankrate.com.
@catch22 - Nice link. Thanks. I glean from it that that having a better, more inclusive, homeowners policy could possibly make adding umbrella coverage less expensive.
Good points on type of vehicle driven. Population density / average income in a given area could be another factor.
Having used a fair number of different insurance companies throughout our times it seems to me that all of the homeowners policies are virtually identical, with specification labels such as "HO-1", "HO-2", or "HO-3". All of our policies have been of the "HO-3" type.
Of course the various limits of each policy differ, but the policy "form" is pretty standard. From internet sources, here is an overview of those three forms-
HO-1 policies can help pay to repair your home and replace your belongings if they’re damaged by a covered loss. HO-1 homeowners insurance policies are named peril policies, meaning you’re only protected against the 10 named perils listed in your policy:
Fire and lightning | Windstorm and hail | Explosions | Riot and civil commotion Damage caused by an aircraft | Damage caused by a vehicle that’s not your own Smoke damage | Vandalism and malicious mischief | Theft | Volcanic eruption
HO-1 homeowners insurance policies are actual cash value policies, which means that depreciation is factored into your claim payout.
HO-2 policies, or broad form policies, offer more coverage than HO-1. HO-2 policies are also named peril policies, but they include coverage for more types of loss, including falling objects and some types of water damage.
An HO-3 policy, or special form policies, is the most common type of homeowners insurance. HO-3s are all-risk policies, meaning you’re protected against all types of loss except for the ones specifically excluded in your policy, like floods and earthquakes.
I'm guessing that for those with really exceptional insurance needs there are high-end companies such as Chubb who may also write special policies unique to a specific situation.
Whoa ! My car insurance jumped 60% from April 2023 to October 2023 ! From $50.18 to $94.32. For six months on a 1998 BMW M Roadster. It went up another $2 this April. I'm not going to complain. OK, I don't carry collision or comprehensive, but still. Over the years, State Farm has done right by me on several occasions. I don't think about switching. (The Volvo only went up 13%, mainly due to Property Protection.)
Car insurance companies and affiliated software developers came up with a scheme that undervalued totaled vehicles, allowing the companies to underpay their customers for the vehicles, the Alameda County District Attorney’s Office alleges in a lawsuit.
The lawsuit says the companies, including Progressive and United Services Automobile Association (USAA), violated state laws that prohibit unfair competition and false advertising. The suit, filed April 26 in Alameda Superior Court, seeks civil penalties against the companies and restitution for their customers.
The lawsuit says the companies and software developers designed vehicle appraisal software to undervalue totaled vehicles, with built-in features to lower the cash value of the vehicles. The suit alleges the companies then made “lowball” settlement offers to their customers based on the deflated cash values and refused to negotiate in good faith.
Once customers accepted the lowball offers, the companies were able to resell the vehicles at auctions to further minimize their losses, according to the lawsuit. The companies, the suit states, “would rather total a vehicle than repair it because of the opportunity to recoup” the losses.
The San Francisco Chronicle is today reporting that State Farm has raised their rates across California, with the average increase about 20%. The Chronicle has mapped out those increases according to location Zip codes.
Some Californians saw their rates more than double when the increases took effect in March, while others may be paying only about 1% more than they were before, according to State Farm’s filings with the California Department of Insurance. The Chronicle is mapping the increases for the first time, using ZIP code-level data.
More than 1.9 million policyholders were affected by the rate increase, according to the filing from State Farm, which is California’s largest property and casualty insurer.
Our Zip code, and most of the neighboring San Francisco codes are scheduled for a 25% increase. Additionally, the report says, individual homes may be further increased depending upon the perceived risk situation.
I'm in the Seattle area and use State Farm for home/auto/umbrella insurance. My auto insurance increased over 25% since Jan 2023. My home policy will renew in July. Hopefully I'm in a good ZIP code!
It is SOP for insurers to total cars if the cost to repair is more than FMV (before accident) minus salvage value. As Kelley Blue Book explains, under the total loss formula if the FMV is $15K and the salvage value is $4K and if the repair costs are more than $11K, then insurer will total the car.
If the insurers are lowballing the FMV, that's illegal. The insurers are paying out too little. But ordinarily recouping salvage value is perfectly reasonable.
I suspect what the article isn't clear about is that because the insurer is lowballing the FMV, it is totaling cars that it should have repaired, and thus benefiting too much from the salvage value.
In the example above assume: True FMV = $15K Lowball FMV = $12K Salvage val = $4K Repair cost = $10K
Using the honest FMV, totaling the car would cost $15K payout - $4K salvage = $11K. It would be cheaper for the insurer to have the car repaired = $10K.
Using the lowball FMV, totaling the car would cost $12K payout - $4K salvage= $8K. It is cheaper for the insurer to total the car. It saves $2K with the lowball FMV.
Nice piece. However, the article doesn't say that State Farm is setting rates by zip code. What is says is that the Chron analyzed the rate increases and the Chron aggregated them by zip code. Certainly geography comes into play in setting rates; it's just that we don't know from the article the level of granularity that State Farm is using: neighborhood, zip code, political division (city, county), or ...?
"The Chronicle is mapping the increases for the first time, using ZIP code-level data."
Regarding car insurance, we had an old station wagon that got hit from behind. The repairs were far more than the Blue Book value but the car still ran and was safe to drive
I told the agent that I did not want to have to buy a new car, why couldn't I just take the check and keep the car
So I did. The title was marked "salvage" so I couldn't re-sell it, but I drove t for another two years then donated it to charity. We couldn't take the tax deduction but we got two years of transportation
I don't know if other insurance companies would do the same thing but it is worth asking.
@sma3- Great article- thanks. One thing puzzled me- it shows CA as being profitable for the past four years, yet the insurance companies are running away like a bunch of cockroaches. No info given on that.
Comments
Events of all flavors are in place, dependent upon the time of year. Including, Bonner's; reportedly the worlds largest Christmas themed store. I suspect 'hank' won't chastise me too much for stepping in with this info. And yes, the insurance company noted is from this community; and has been in business since 1868 (156 years).
Frankenmuth
Excerpt is from Franklin Insurance’s webpage. Do your own due diligence if considering:
Headquartered in Frankenmuth, Michigan, and doing business in 15 states, Frankenmuth Insurance is financially sound, with $1.8 billion in assets. The company has an A.M. Best rating of “A” (Excellent).
Thanks for the education. It's always appreciated.
Dear Gilda and Emily. 'They made a lot folks smile'.
Radner was a remarkable talent. They don't come along as often as we need them.
Shoot. Now I have something in my eye.
I know, I know... go to the principal's office... yet again...
About $80 a year. I’d never heard of one either. But the world was a much different place back when I first took out homeowners insurance in 1977.Geez, you learn a lot here!
Edit 5/13/24 / I received the written application. I must not have understood the agent over the phone. Here’s the ditty:
- 1 Mil Umbrella
- Annual cost $138
- Cost to increase homeowner liability coverage: $60 per year
- Total additional annual cost to me: $198 annually
- Likely I’m receiving a discount for having home and 2 vehicles with same insurer
- There were 18 “yes / no” questions on the app - Things like “Do you have any pets?” and “Have you ever been party to a lawsuit?” They seemed especially interested in any powered recreational vehicles. I have none. (We pedal)
Absolutely true... I love this place.
I'm sure these vary by your home/auto policy liability amounts and perhaps area.
Our cost is $368/year for $1 million, as a reference. South/central Michigan.
Yogi says “It ain’t over til the fat lady sings.”
I’ve long elected to have insurance payments come out of my bank account automatically on a monthly basis. In the early days of getting a handle on my finances (when I just learning how to run an annual household budget) I went with that option because recurring payments seemed easier to manage. Today, 30 years later, it wouldn’t make any difference. But I’ve stayed with the monthly auto-payment method.
We will shop insurance again in 2025, as we have seen how switching companies (quality) for the same coverage every several years may provide a price advantage. I will note, as has been written by others here; is for the consideration of quality and proper service, if and when needed. A few neighbors in the past 2 years have had minor auto damage claims with the company we now use, and a representative was at their home the next day to take a few pics of the vehicle and fill the paperwork for a most timely process of repairs needed. The neighbors were quite pleased.
A snippet: 'How much an umbrella policy costs depends on many variables. Many of the factors that affect your home insurance and auto insurance costs may affect the cost of your umbrella policy. These could include location, the features in your home, the types of cars you drive and your claims history. The underwriting criteria for an umbrella policy can be more restrictive than an auto or home policy. Those with occupations deemed too risky or who have had liability claims in the past may not qualify for coverage.'
A longer write regarding an umbrella policy from Bankrate.com.
Good points on type of vehicle driven. Population density / average income in a given area could be another factor.
Having used a fair number of different insurance companies throughout our times it seems to me that all of the homeowners policies are virtually identical, with specification labels such as "HO-1", "HO-2", or "HO-3". All of our policies have been of the "HO-3" type.
Of course the various limits of each policy differ, but the policy "form" is pretty standard. From internet sources, here is an overview of those three forms- I'm guessing that for those with really exceptional insurance needs there are high-end companies such as Chubb who may also write special policies unique to a specific situation.
Over the years, State Farm has done right by me on several occasions. I don't think about switching. (The Volvo only went up 13%, mainly due to Property Protection.)
My auto insurance increased over 25% since Jan 2023.
My home policy will renew in July.
Hopefully I'm in a good ZIP code!
"Military-friendly
We understand military life is unique. That’s why we offer products and services with the unique needs of the military community in mind."
I'm pretty sure getting screwed over on your auto insurance is not one of those unique needs military members and families are lookin for.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/alameda-county-da-pamela-price-insurance-scheme-undervalued-totaled-vehicles/ar-BB1mgL6y
and the Alameda County DA's press release:
https://www.alcoda.org/alameda-county-district-attorney-pamela-price-announces-lawsuit-against-automobile-insurance-and-software-companies-alleging-scheme-underpaying-california-residents-for-totaled-vehicles-to-maximize-i/
It is SOP for insurers to total cars if the cost to repair is more than FMV (before accident) minus salvage value. As Kelley Blue Book explains, under the total loss formula if the FMV is $15K and the salvage value is $4K and if the repair costs are more than $11K, then insurer will total the car.
It costs the insurer less to pay out $15K and recoup $4K of that than to pay $11K+ to repair.
https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/insurance/totaled-car/
If the insurers are lowballing the FMV, that's illegal. The insurers are paying out too little. But ordinarily recouping salvage value is perfectly reasonable.
I suspect what the article isn't clear about is that because the insurer is lowballing the FMV, it is totaling cars that it should have repaired, and thus benefiting too much from the salvage value.
In the example above assume:
True FMV = $15K
Lowball FMV = $12K
Salvage val = $4K
Repair cost = $10K
Using the honest FMV, totaling the car would cost $15K payout - $4K salvage = $11K.
It would be cheaper for the insurer to have the car repaired = $10K.
Using the lowball FMV, totaling the car would cost $12K payout - $4K salvage= $8K.
It is cheaper for the insurer to total the car. It saves $2K with the lowball FMV.
@msf - yes, that's the way that I read it also.
"The Chronicle is mapping the increases for the first time, using ZIP code-level data."
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/13/climate/insurance-homes-climate-change-weather.html
Regarding car insurance, we had an old station wagon that got hit from behind. The repairs were far more than the Blue Book value but the car still ran and was safe to drive
I told the agent that I did not want to have to buy a new car, why couldn't I just take the check and keep the car
So I did. The title was marked "salvage" so I couldn't re-sell it, but I drove t for another two years then donated it to charity. We couldn't take the tax deduction but we got two years of transportation
I don't know if other insurance companies would do the same thing but it is worth asking.
I assume it is because they stand to loose so much in a mega fire.