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Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
  • Allocation funds
    Thanks. Takes a steadier mousing hand than I have to get to a particular day easily.
    But the results are quite different! (Unless I am making a mistake.)
    Stockchart shows performance since 4/25/2005 to date for JABAX of +208% (rounded up) and VWELX of +210% (rounded down). Hmm. Whereas M* shows nothing of the sort: $10k grows over the same period to 32,842 Janus vs 31,297 for Vanguard, a difference of $1500.
    wtf??
    Again, unless I have done something wrong.
    Charles and msf may have thoughts on this discrepancy.
    To use the M* legacy graphing for ready (meaning easier than with the new site, to my mind) specifying of dates and periods and more:
    https://quotes.morningstar.com/chart/fund/chart.action?t=jabax
  • Allocation funds
    @davidrmoran The site wouldn't let me set the below chart for the time frame you mentioned. But, you may slide the left end of the 5210 day slider to the right to obtain your time frame for a better overview of total returns in percentage terms.
    Chart of above funds
  • Allocation funds
    JABAX outperforms VWELX, OAKBX, FPURX, FPACX, and DODBX if you go back to the day Pinto walked in the Janus door, 14y and 5mos ago. It's a mysterious miracle of added value.
    This is per M*; see below.
  • Allocation funds
    The very first paragraph I wrote in this thread was:
    "I generally suggest caution when evaluating a fund with recent poor performance. That recent performance distorts the longer term figures."
    The same applies to funds with recent good performance. One gets a different perspective by disregarding a recent, disproportionately bad (or good) period and looking at longer periods that came before. Now three years (2017-19) is not just a very recent 6 month or one year span that can be lightly disregarded. But there was a significant management change in 2016 that justifies looking at the pre- and post-Smith periods separately.
    Your mother and daughter are in fact doing half of that. They're looking at the post-Smith period exclusively (3 years) or the mostly post-Smith period (5 years). You're doing that also, with your 5/4/3/2/1/ytd figures that virtually ignore the Smith period.
    Again repeating myself, all of this may suggest that Pinto is a great manager (better alone than with Smith). But it also cuts against your statement that the key to the fund's performance is the way he manages the stock sleeve. If the stock sleeve were the key, one would expect similar relative performance across consecutive multi-year periods, those with and without Smith.
    Cherry picking says that the selection of time periods is made by seeking especially good (or bad) periods. That's not what I did. I selected time periods based on management. Which makes sense to do on general principle, let alone to test the hypothesis that "growth a la Pinto" was the key.
  • Allocation funds
    I am lost now in your sub-period cherrypicking, but for 5y/4y/3y/2y/1y/ytd and 3mos JABAX has either matched (else very very close) or outperformed both the value-oriented (and excellent) VWELX and the growth-oriented FPURX. I wonder why. Your 'analysis' looks subpar to me.
    (VWELX has done gangbusters over the last month, that's true.)
    If you are interested in delving further, you might wish to MFOP-compare the two of them, both GO/HR and w/ similar UIs, over 15/12/10 ...-year periods and subperiods. Except for Vanguard having way deeper drawdowns long in the past, it is really remarkable how a fund 6x the size of Janus and moreover with a value tilt has done very close to as well, and sometimes better. It's as though the long-discussed value penalty does not exist for VWELX. It would be interesting to understand that too.
  • Allocation funds
    You asked for an analysis, I provided one. That's all. As I wrote before, the fact that JABAX leans consistently toward growth suggests that the pond it fishes in plays a significant role in its performance. Aside from Puritan (more on that below) the fact that you selected for comparison funds that lean toward value calls attention to its growth style.
    "Growth, but growth a la Pinto, look to be the key." Are you sure that it's growth a la Pinto that's the key? Prior to the last three years, the fund was still good, but somewhat less so. Smith left three years ago. Coincidence? Pinto took over the responsibility for asset allocation and others took over the bond sleeve.
    Before 2017 the fund had some fine years, but not in the top decile. Since Smith left, it's been nothing but. While that data suggests that someone is adding value now, it also suggests that Pinto's stock sleeve management skills are not the key. They haven't changed, have they?
    Take the five year period ending when Smith left (3/31/11 - 3/31/16). Your mom and daughter's $10K would have grown to $14,177 with JABAX, and to $14,692 with FPURX.
    See M* chart.
    Or the three year period 3/31/13 - 3/31/16. There JABAX ended with $12,112 vs. FPURX's $12,722. (One can edit the start date in the M* chart to get these figures.)
  • Allocation funds
    Maybe.
    Let us say mom or daughter, not just you or I, graphs M* $10k growth of VWELX, JABAX, and FPURX for 3 and 5 years.
    (She did so because she read an article advising always to do that, not shorter terms.)
    What does she see? Well, someone sure is adding value somewhere. Clearly. 3y starts in the fall of 2016. Hmm. Notable outperformance by JABAX from then.
    She adds FPACX, OAKBX, and DODBX, because of another article she read. Well, forget them.
    She goes ahead and, just for kicks, checks 1y and ytd. A hair of underperformance by JABAX wrt to Vanguard. Bond advantage lost? Not seeing it.
    Same for 3mos.
    You may have it in for Pinto because it was I who posted about JABAX, or something like that. But superior things have always taken place for as long as he has been involved w/ JABAX, to my view. Am I missing something?
    Growth, but growth a la Pinto, look to be the key. If growth alone, the question remains for me, Why is FPURX not better?
    So I score all this as showing at least some added value for this guy. Maybe Snowball can do an interview with him about outperformance longevity.
  • Wall Street Is Wrong: You CAN Retire On $405K. Here's How
    Consider retiring overseas. I spent much of my youth in Thailand and hope to retire there someday. $US 405k will allow someone to live a very good retirement in a lower cost country like Thailand.
  • Allocation funds
    My apologies. While my inputs to PV were as described, that tool apparently refused to analyze more than a decade. Rather than indicate an input error, it generated returns over roughly ten years: Oct 2010 - Aug 2019. At least that's how it labeled the output.
    The general point remains - MPinto may not have added value. The good performance can be explained by the Janus growth style.
    (Based on the two sets of figures, what PV output for a decade and what you report from M* over roughly 15 years, we can say that Wellington has done better over the past decade; Janus Balanced was better in the five years preceding that.)
    BTW, $10K in Wellington grew by $21,269, not to $21,269. See M* graph here.
    Regarding Puritan, like Wellington it outperformed JABAX over the past decade. Which suggests not so much that it should have done better given its growth leanings, but rather that JABAX was the anomaly, as it outperformed by a wide margin in 2007-2008. Which in turn suggests taking a closer look at the other 40% of the portfolio, i.e. the bonds. (For example, treasuries did well around 2008, other types of bonds more poorly.)
    If (and I haven't looked into this) bonds are indeed the reason for the outperformance of JABAX between 2005 and 2010, then that advantage was lost in 2016 when Smith left. That's something you might want to take a closer look at.
  • Wall Street Is Wrong: You CAN Retire On $405K. Here's How
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelfoster/2019/09/24/wall-street-is-wrong-you-can-retire-on-405k-heres-how/#42eae835539c
    Wall Street Is Wrong: You CAN Retire On $405K. Here's How
    Today I want to show you how you can retire on $405,000—and with just five buys, too! Put together, these five stocks and funds hand you a 7.4%-yielding portfolio that will pay you reliably for decades.
    405k maybe too little though... Probably need 1mill to live comfortably... But if you live in other majorities like NY prob need much more than 1mill in portfolio
  • Allocation funds
    Greetings, Y'all.
    I held FPACX in my portfolio from 2010 - or earlier - until the end of 2018.
    My reasons for dumping it were:
    1) fund should have been closed long ago. I got in when AUM was approx $8B. How in good conscience can a fund be kept open when the average cash stake was 20% or better most of the time? That much cash means there aren't many good deals out there, so why accept more cash?
    2) For an $8B fund with 20-30% of AUM in cash, what justifies an ER >= 1.00%.?Today AUM are 50% greater, so why has the ER increased instead of decreased?
    If you look at M* data, you'll see that over 15 years, FPACX is a middle-of-the-road fund. It maybe is in the second quartile on the 4-bar graph, and comes in around 50% in terms of fund rankings.
    If I remember correctly, prior to 2010, this fund was hot, and it wasn't large cap performance that made it hot. I thought it might have had good defensive characteristics, which is why I bought in. Sometime around that time, money started to pour in, AUM went way up, and people didn't care that the ER was where it was because the fund was still doing well.
    There are plenty of other funds out there - big and small - where I would put my money. I have both VWENX and VWIAX. If I didn't, I'd consider DODBX, ABALX - even if I had to pay the load -, and possibly MAPOX and FOBAX. I sold out my FOBAX two years ago, and have been regretting it ever since. I have not regretting selling FPACX and doubt that I ever will. YMMV.
  • Allocation funds
    hmm, M* from start of May 05 to date appears to show small but nontrivial outperformance the other way, $10k growing to $21,269 for VWELX vs $22,978 for JABAX. - ?
    Yes, Janus (the company, too, TBailey's penchant, then JCraig) has usually, albeit sometimes intermittently, leaned toward growth, as long as I have been involved with them, going back to Janus Fund. Not like VWELX and Romick and Oakmark. Indeed, you would think that FPURX (similar growth taste as JABAX) would be even better than it is, would you not?
    I don't know what it would take for Pinto and Fido (speaking v generally) to ever shift to value.
  • Allocation funds
    What pops out immediately from JABAX's portfolio is that its equity sleeve is large cap growth, and has been at least leaning that way for the past five years or longer. See here. We've been in a long period, virtually the whole tenure of MPinto, where growth has outperformed value.
    This raises the questions (1) whether its good performance has been due in part simply to this bias, and (2) whether this is where the manager is comfortable investing or whether he would shift to value (and under what conditions)?
    It's hard to answer #2. To address #1, I ran a quick analysis using Portfolio Visualizer.
    I ran back tests from May 2005 to the present, comparing JABAX with VWELX and with 60/40 mixes of VOOG & VBTLX (to check JABAX value add vs. index funds) and VOOV & VBTLX (for VWELX value add vs. index funds). Rebalanced quarterly.
    From best to worst annualized returns:
    VOOG/VBTLX: 10.43% (growth mix)
    VWELX: 9.74%
    JABAX: 9.32%
    VOOV/VBTLX: 8.36% (value mix)
  • Allocation funds
    Has anyone ever read profiles / analyses / interviews w MPinto, who has been doing really good things at JABAX for like 15y ?
  • Invesco liquidates several funds
    Yeah - Checking M* I get figures (for OSDAX) at or close to msf & Carew388. (1.78 @3 years and 1.33 @5). Sorry for the misstatement. Now, if somebody can explain to me how Lipper could screw up those numbers, I’d feel better. Have used the MW / Lipper data for years and never encountered a problem like that.
    As far as Invesco closing, I’m new there, having transferred in thru the merger with Oppenheimer. I’ve been critical of Oppenheimer for years, due to higher fees and their horrible ‘07-‘09 performance. But, as I said earlier, I’ve had a relatively small % of assets with them since around ‘95. I’ve always invested directly with the houses rather than thru a brokerage. Old school I guess. So yes, I’d miss them if they closed completely. I like and use 3 of their specialty funds. With those types of funds, the ability to move in and out nearly at will is helpful. That said, as I simplify things and move monies to TRP (a process already in progress) $$ will be coming out of Invesco.
  • Invesco liquidates several funds
    Legacy M* OSDAX purchase page (just Vanguard and JP Morgan carry the A shares)
    http://financials.morningstar.com/fund/purchase-info.html?t=OSDAX&region=usa&culture=en-US
    Legacy M* OSDAX performance page. Click on "Monthly" tab to get performance figures as of 8/31/19 (confirming carew388's numbers).
    http://performance.morningstar.com/fund/performance-return.action?t=OSDAX&region=usa&culture=en-US
    That latter page can be used to compare OSDAX with other funds. I input TRBUX and it gave 3 and 5 year annual returns of 2.37% and 1.78% also as of 8/31/19.
    Flipping back to the Daily tab, the TRBUX figures are 2.33% and 1.80%, confirming hank's figures for that fund (give or take a day).
    One can tell that Marketwatch (with Lipper data) has the wrong figures for OSDAX by checking the figures for OSDYX (the ERs are comparable, 0.25% for Y vs 0.33% for A). For the Y shares, Marketwatch reports 3 and 5 year annual returns of 1.85% and 1.4% respectively.
  • Invesco liquidates several funds
    I checked OSDAX summary prospectus at the Invesco website and as of 8/31/19 3 year rtn was 1.76 and 5 year rtn 1.30. Vanguard surprisingly was the only brokerage I found that offered the fund;it was unavailable at Fidelity,Schwab and E-Trade.
  • Allocation funds
    Hi Art,
    Not that my 2 cents of thought is really worth 2 cents; but we departed away from all non-U.S. equity in May of 2016, with the exception of whatever may be held by a fund for some foreign exposure. To the best of my recall, we used the best turd in the global turd pile approach for this decision.
    Not that the funds you noted are sub-par, but that their investment areas may not be as favorable right now. No easy choices or decisions in the current markets conditions. Too many things going on all around the globe.
    I/we still hold this view; although there will always be exceptions in some foreign areas.
    I used FBALX for a moderate allocation (U.S. centric) compare in the below chart. This is not a fair comparison as to fund types, but represents the returns only for a view.The fund generally may have 5% or less of foreign equity exposure. Fund inception, Nov. 1986; with lifetime annualized total return of 9.18%.
    Chart of these funds, since 2008 IVWIX , FPACX , FBALX
    Are these holdings tax sheltered so that taxes would not be a problem with a sale? What would be the percent impact to the total holdings if you sold both?
    Take care,
    Catch
  • Allocation funds
    I have 2 allocation funds, IVWIX and FPACX. Both long term holds over 5 years Both funds are 30%+ cash/bonds. On down days they sometimes have worse performance than some of my all stock funds. I am not seeing the advantage of having an allocation fund, at least my 2 choices. 7 of my 11 funds had better performance today. FPACX is in the middle of the pack YTD and IVWIX is my worst performer YTD. 3 year returns are not much different. Buy/sell/hold these funds? What are your thoughts? I am thinking separate stock and bond funds.
  • BBH Core Select Fund to liquidate
    https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1342947/000089109219009814/e6667-497.htm
    497 1 e6667-497.htm FORM 497
    BBH TRUST
    BBH CORE SELECT
    CLASS N SHARES (BBTEX)
    RETAIL CLASS SHARES (BBTRX)
    SUPPLEMENT DATED SEPTEMBER 23, 2019 TO THE
    PROSPECTUS DATED FEBRUARY 28, 2019
    The following information supplements, and, to the extent inconsistent therewith, supersedes, certain information in the Prospectus and Statement of Additional Information.
    I. FUND LIQUIDATION
    On September 23, 2019, the Board of Trustees of BBH Trust (the “Trust”) approved a Plan of Liquidation for BBH Core Select (the “Fund”) pursuant to which the Fund will be liquidated (the “Liquidation”) on or about the earlier of (i) October 9, 2019 and (ii) the date in which all shareholders that are not affiliated with the Adviser have redeemed their respective shares in the Fund (the “Liquidation Date”). Shareholder approval of the Liquidation is not required.
    Beginning on September 23 through the Liquidation Date, the Fund may depart from its stated investment objective and policies as it liquidates holdings in preparation for the distribution of assets to investors. During this time, the Fund may hold more cash or cash equivalents than normal, which may prevent the Fund from meeting its stated investment objective. Shareholders of record as of the close of business on the Liquidation Date will receive their proportionate interest in all of the net assets of the Fund in complete cancellation and redemption of all the outstanding shares of the Fund. Payment will be made in accordance with instructions from each shareholder. If a shareholder has not provided instructions by the time proceeds are distributed, that shareholder’s liquidation proceeds shall be distributed based on the payment instructions on file for such shareholder with the Fund’s Transfer Agent. For those accounts with no bank instructions on file with the Fund’s Transfer Agent, the Transfer Agent shall issue a check.
    Shareholders of the Fund may redeem their investments as described in the Fund’s Prospectus prior to the Liquidation Date. Effective after market close on September 23, 2019, the Fund has waived the redemption fee for all redemptions.
    If the Fund has not received your redemption request or other instruction by the Liquidation Date, your shares will be redeemed on the Liquidation Date, and you will receive your proceeds from the Fund, subject to any required withholding.
    The Adviser will bear all expenses of the Liquidation to the extent such expenses are not part of the Fund’s normal and customary fees and operating expenses, which the Adviser has voluntarily agreed to limit to 0.80%. However, the Fund and its shareholders will bear transaction costs and any potential tax consequences associated with turnover of the Fund’s portfolio.
    The liquidation of the Fund, like any redemption of Fund shares, will constitute an event upon which a gain or loss may be recognized for state and federal income tax purposes, depending on the type of account and the adjusted cost basis of the investor’s shares. The tax year for the Fund will end on the Liquidation Date. Please contact your tax advisor to discuss the tax consequences to you of the liquidation.
    II. CLOSURE OF THE FUND TO PURCHASES
    Effective as of the close of business on September 20, 2019, BBH Core Select (the “Fund”) was closed to purchases of Fund shares, however, the Fund’s closure to purchases of Fund shares does not restrict any shareholders from redeeming shares of the Fund.
    The Fund’s ability to enforce the closure of the Fund to purchases with respect to certain retirement plan accounts and accounts held by financial intermediaries may vary depending on systems capabilities, applicable contractual and legal restrictions and cooperation of those retirement plans and intermediaries.
    Please contact the Fund at 1-800-575-1265 if you have any questions.
    PLEASE RETAIN THIS SUPPLEMENT FOR FUTURE REFERENCE.
    From BBH Funds website:
    https://www.bbhfunds.com/resource/blob/38882/fd1538e953c3b25cb9677cdad467b3ef/notice-to-shareholders---bbh-core-select-fund-liquidiation-data.pdf
    or
    https://www.bbhfunds.com/bbhfunds-en-us/our-funds/bbh-equity-funds/core-select-fund
    BBH Core Select Fund Liquidation
    Notice to Shareholders
    September 23, 2019
    Brown Brothers Harriman & Co. Announces Liquidation of BBH Core Select
    BBH CORE SELECT CLASS N SHARES (BBTEX)
    BBH CORE SELECT RETAIL CLASS SHARES (BBTRX)
    At a meeting held on September 23, 2019, the Board of Trustees of BBH Trust adopted a Plan of Liquidation (the “Plan”) for BBH Core Select (the “Fund”) based on the recommendation of Brown Brothers Harriman & Co. through its separately identifiable department (the “Adviser”), and in consideration of various factors, including the recent launch of BBH Select Series – Large Cap Fund, a fund with the same investment team and substantially similar investment strategy.
    As previously announced, the Fund closed to new investments effective as of the close of business on September 20, 2019. As outlined in the Plan, the Fund will make a final liquidating distribution to its remaining shareholders equal to each shareholder’s proportionate interest in the net assets of the Fund on or about October 9, 2019 (the “Liquidation Date”).
    In the period leading up to the Liquidation Date, the Adviser may manage the Fund in a manner intended to facilitate its orderly liquidation, such as by raising cash. During this time, all or a portion of the Fund may not be invested in a manner consistent with its stated investment strategies, which may prevent the Fund from achieving its investment objective.
    Shareholders have three options in advance of the Liquidation Date:
    (1) Redeem BBH Core Select shares;
    (2) Redeem BBH Core Select shares and purchase BBH Select Series-Large Cap Fund with the proceeds*; or
    (3) Take no action -- the Fund will redeem remaining shareholders on Liquidation Date.
    The Adviser will bear the expenses of the liquidation to the extent such expenses are not part of the Fund’s normal and customary fees and operating expenses, which the Adviser has voluntarily agreed to limit to 0.80%. The Fund has waived the redemption fee for all redemptions effective at market close on September 23, 2019.
    The liquidation of the Fund, like any redemption of Fund shares, will constitute an event upon which a gain or loss may be recognized for state and federal income tax purposes, depending on the type of account and the adjusted cost basis of the investor’s shares. To the extent that BBH Core Select Fund is required to provide any additional information, such information will be available via www.bbhfunds.com. Please contact your tax advisor to discuss the tax consequences to you of the liquidation.
    For additional details, please refer to the supplement dated September 23, 2019 to the BBH Core Select Prospectus dated February 28, 2019. If you have any questions or require any additional information regarding this announcement, please contact the Fund using the phone numbers or email addresses provided below:
    Financial Advisors/Institutional Investors: (800) 625-5759 - [email protected]
    Individual Investors: (800) 575-1265 - [email protected]
    -------------------------------------------------------
    * Direct Fund investors with accounts at ALPS Distributors, Inc. may request the redemption of the Fund and purchase of shares of BBH Select Series – Large Cap Fund or any other BBH Fund with the proceeds using the form available h­­­ere. Investors not holding the Fund directly may request the exchange be processed through the intermediary where their account is held.
    Brown Brothers Harriman & Co. (“BBH”), a New York limited partnership, was founded in 1818 and provides investment advice to the BBH Trust through a separately identifiable department (the “SID”). The SID is registered with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission under the Investment Advisers Act of 1940. BBH acts as the Fund Administrator and is located at 140 Broadway, New York, NY 10005.
    Shares of the BBH Funds are distributed by ALPS Distributors, Inc.
    For more complete information, visit www.bbhfunds.com or contact your investment professional for prospectuses. You should consider the fund's investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses carefully before you invest. Information about these and other important subjects is in the fund's prospectus, which you should read carefully before investing.
    Securities products are subject to investment risks, including possible loss of the principal invested.
    NOT FDIC INSURED NO BANK GUARANTEE MAY LOSE VALUE