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Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
  • Accusation: General Electric is "bigger fraud than Enron"
    PRWCX has been a buyer of GE as of late and David Giroux commented that he wouldn't be surprised if it was his best performing holding over the next few years. I'd like to hear his take on these accusations.
    Mentioned here:
    https://mutualfundobserver.com/discuss/discussion/47062/consuelo-mack-s-wealthtrack-guest-david-giroux-manager-trp-appreciation-fund-prwcx
  • M*: The End Of Favorable Tax Treatment For Inherited IRAs?
    Hi @BenWP
    This is a link from the Forbes article, that you may have already checked; but I'll place regardless. The Senate version is also within the article.
    Secure Act............. non-spousal inheritance tax implications.
    Go to the money, eh? IMHO, this proposed legislation travels directly to what is likely one of the biggest pools of money at this time........IRA's and related held by the boomers.
    Michigan in 2012 (Republican governor/legislature) successfully traveled this road, requiring the MI Supreme Court to uphold legal challenges. The road being, changing the taxation of pension monies; but targeting a narrow age group of boomers. This in itself, was immoral, IMHO.
    I argued every which way of the negative side(s) of this with emails to legislators and the state treasurer. As the years have moved along, some of the negative has shown its face. I personally know a number of retired boomers who decided to make the move to Florida (no pension monies taxation); due in part to the Michigan pension taxation changes. So, this tax base is now gone from Michigan......tax base = monies spent locally and anything else one may imagine that these folks would have spent in their state (Michigan). So, the state no longer gets the tax on pension monies, or other monies that would have been spent here. $'s gone, gone, gone and never to return. I do believe I'm becoming redundant here. :)
    Just my 2 cents worth.
    Take care of you and yours,
    Catch
  • Vanguard Dividend Growth Reopens. Enter at Will.
    I have held VIG for several years during which time it has out performed VIGDX. What is the big deal about the OEF when the ETF is available? One pundit claims the OEF is actively managed and the ETF is a slavish index fund; seems to me the superiority of the latter is obvious.
  • Accusation: General Electric is "bigger fraud than Enron"
    We’ve ridden our GE stock down about 75% over the past couple years, so it’s such a small part of our portfolio now that it matters very little if it goes bust. It’s not worth selling at this point because I would have to hire an accountant to figure out our cost basis for tax returns. We’ve owned GE for 40 years and it’s our only individual stock, a gift from my wife’s grandfather. Fortunately we sold shares over the years for down payments on homes, so it’s paid off in the long term.
  • anyone bailin out yet?
    No, I don’t try to time the markets. My asset allocation is set to my time horizon and needs. Reduced my overall stock percentage from about 60% to 50% when I retired because we would be making periodic withdrawals, but no need to change now because we have enough assets in “safe” investments to last years without needing to sell any stocks.
  • Accusation: General Electric is "bigger fraud than Enron"
    Following is a current article from The Guardian. It is complete as published.
    The whistleblower who called out Bernard Madoff’s Ponzi scheme has accused General Electric of wide-scale fraud in a move that has sent the conglomerate’s share price into a tailspin.
    In a report titled General Electric, a Bigger Fraud Than Enron, investigator Harry Markopolos claims GE is engaging in accounting fraud worth $38bn. He said GE is heading for bankruptcy and is hiding $29bn in long-term care losses.
    “GE’s $38bn in accounting fraud amounts to over 40% of GE’s market capitalization, making it far more serious than either the Enron or WorldCom accounting frauds,” he writes, referencing two of the largest corporate accounting scandals in history.
    After a year long investigation for an unidentified hedge fund, Markopolos writes he has discovered “an Enronesque business approach that has left GE on the verge of insolvency”. Enron, a Texas-based energy group, filed for bankruptcy in 2001, brought down by a massive accountancy scandal.
    This report is “going to make this company probably file for bankruptcy”, Markopolos told CNBC’s Squawk on the Street. “WorldCom and Enron lasted about four months … We’ll see how GE does.”
    In a statement GE said it “stands behind its financials” and operates to the “highest level of integrity” in its financial reporting. “We remain focused on running our business every day and … will not be distracted by this type of meritless, misguided and self-serving speculation.”
    GE’s share price sank close to 15% after the report was released.
    General Electric is already under investigation by the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), the US’s top financial watchdog, and the justice department over accounting irregularities related to its insurance and power divisions.
    Once the world’s most valuable company, GE has struggled in recent years. Former CEO and chairman John Flannery was abruptly removed last year after only a year on the job and replaced by former Lawrence Culp, former CEO of the Danaher conglomerate.
    On Thursday Culp dismissed Markopolos’s report. “GE will always take any allegation of financial misconduct seriously. But this is market manipulation – pure and simple,” he said.
    Markopolos is best known for his role as the whistleblower who warned the SEC about Madoff’s Ponzi scheme. Madoff was jailed for 150-years in 2009 after pleading guilty to swindling investors out of $65bn in savings.
  • PIMCO income A expense ratio
    I went to a talk by the managers of MWTRX (20 years ago?) before MetWest was acquired by TCW. One of the audience questions was how they would compare themselves with PTTRX. They said that PIMCO funds (and PTTRX in particular) were so large that PIMCO had to manage their funds top down (macro calls), while at MetWest they focused on issue selection.
    (Since MetWest was acquired by TCW and their funds have grown so large, I suspect they also no longer have the ability to significantly benefit from astute issue selection.)
    This is not necessarily a bad thing; it's just a different approach. But like any high conviction approach, it is subject to periodic bad calls (in hindsight). It comes with the territory. One should understand this and not let rapid losses take one by surprise. (This is a reason why I prefer not to ignore "upside risk" - it can be indicative of future downside risk.)
    Over at Templeton, Hasenstab is known for managing this way. So it should not come as a surprise that he too got caught by the drop in the Argentina peso.
    https://mutualfundobserver.com/discuss/discussion/52009/hasenstab-loses-1-8bn-in-single-day-as-big-bet-blows-up-femgx-tpinx
    His Templeton funds are quite different from PIMCO's funds, so I'm not saying they're directly comparable. Still, I find Hasenstab's funds to be more transparent (notably with respect to currency exposure), making it easier to figure out what happened.
    Regarding ERs: PIMIX's actual ER last year was 1.05%. That's from the annual report, dated 3/31/2019. Interest expenses stated in a prospectus (which is what all the figures before this post are quoting) are forward looking guesses, usually based on last year's actual expenses. We won't know what PIMIX is actually spending on interest now until it completes a reporting period.
    To conclude with another knock on M*'s new format - M* used to give both ER figures (prospectus and annual report), but now doesn't seem to give the actual (annual report) figure. Giving both numbers had caused much confusion, but IMHO omitting data is not the right "solution".
  • IOFIX Yesterday
    @Charles has held this through thick and thin and that is the best way to play IOFIX - buy and hold. Anyone who hasn’t established a position it’s best to buy after a down day. Down days often occur a couple days before the second to last trading day of the month. Then again, if one hasn’t already had a position why now after its stellar returns since inception. I have been as high as 100% of my liquid net worth at various times the past couple years. As I detailed made the mistake of going from 89% to 55% recently and after today’s close back up to 67%. Will add more when I see a weak day or two. IOFIX seems correlated to absolutely nothing and why I call it the mystery fund. YTD everyone seems to be a bond genius and set for double digit annual returns in all sorts of bond categories so be wary of becoming a Johnny Come Lately.
  • anyone bailin out yet?

    That's why we nibble and build up positions over time!
    I don't have to tell you guys, but the problem with buying the dip, is that you don't know how low it will go. Added to Wellington at beginning of the month, my normal purchasing time.
    The guys here will tell ya. It really makes no difference with a long time horizon. What was the S&P at 10 years ago? 20?
  • PIMCO income A expense ratio
    PONAX was cream-of the-crop years ago, but hasn't been special for a couple. Every dog has its day. For the last couple years my only domestic bond fund is IOFAX, but I'm sure at some point that will change too. Nothing stays on top forever, hence the story for PONAX. Actually if only looking at net expense ratio, PONAX is a bargain compared to IOFAX.
    Since most of my money is in a tax deferred IRA and 401k, yield comparisons mean little to nothing for me. All about total return.
  • anyone bailin out yet?
    Nada. Month ago I stashed 100% of 2020 budget needs in cash - near the year’s highs. Worked well last year.
    Otherwise, steady as it goes. If I was 10-15 years younger I’d be fire-walking / buying down with every 750-1000 point drop in the Dow. Too old for that kinda s*** any more.
    Thanks to those who have / will respond. Interesting market. Bears watching. If this continues, there will be calls from many (including some in Congress) to fire Powell. Such is the environment we find ourselves these days. (And I’m trying very hard to steer clear of politics.)
  • PIMCO income A expense ratio

    Hrm. Maybe I mis-read things at the time, which was entirely possible then.
    Memories fade. Sometimes we remember what we want to remember.
    My own memory says that PIMCO funds were generally expensive, though I believe that there was a period of time when they actually got cheap. I think at one time Bill Gross said something about making fees more reasonable. But that's my fuzzy memory, and it's harder to find records of such pronouncements than it is to dig up old filings:
    PIMIX current expenses (July 31, 2019 summary prospectus):
    Management Fees: 0.50%
    12b-1 Fees: N/A
    Other Expenses: 0.55% (all of which is interest expense, per footnote)
    Fee Waiver: N/A
    Total ER: 1.05%
    PIMIX expenses 10 years ago (July 31, 2009 prospectus):
    Management Fees: 0.45%
    12b-1 Fees: N/A
    Other Expenses: 0.61% ("reflect interest expense", per footnote)
    Expense Reduction (0.05%)
    Total ER: 1.01%
  • PIMCO income A expense ratio
    Memories fade. Sometimes we remember what we want to remember.
    My own memory says that PIMCO funds were generally expensive, though I believe that there was a period of time when they actually got cheap. I think at one time Bill Gross said something about making fees more reasonable. But that's my fuzzy memory, and it's harder to find records of such pronouncements than it is to dig up old filings:
    PIMIX current expenses (July 31, 2019 summary prospectus):
    Management Fees: 0.50%
    12b-1 Fees: N/A
    Other Expenses: 0.55% (all of which is interest expense, per footnote)
    Fee Waiver: N/A
    Total ER: 1.05%
    PIMIX expenses 10 years ago (July 31, 2009 prospectus):
    Management Fees: 0.45%
    12b-1 Fees: N/A
    Other Expenses: 0.61% ("reflect interest expense", per footnote)
    Expense Reduction (0.05%)
    Total ER: 1.01%
  • The bond market is screaming
    It takes Krugman 529 words to say that none of us understands wtf is going on with interest rates?
    Edit: Kinda busy today. Some chopped up observations ... I don’t think Krugman’s wrong. He just tosses out a number of possibilities - already widely understood.
    What I suspect may be the unmentioned elephant in the room is (broadly defined) global demographics. Many nations are experiencing declines in working age populations and increases in the elderly. And, the elderly are living longer. A lot of the change relates to the devastation / loss of life stemming from WWII. Babies born shortly after the war ended are now 70-75 years old.
    That demographic shift puts enormous pressure on income producing instruments because the elderly have shorter anticipated time horizons over which to invest and lower risk tolerance in general. Bonds, including those held via various insurance products, become an investment of choice for a growing sector of the populations in the more advanced (wealthier) global economies. This drives rates downward.
    So, what accounts for the seemingly unstoppable gains in equities? That’s more complicated. But I suspect a few factors: (1) the loss of defined benefit retirement plans has driven many inexperienced investors into the equity markets leading to more exaggerated boom & bust cycles; (2) money has been driven into equities the low and lower interest rates, (3) global productivity has increased due to the technology revolution. (4) To some extent, the advent of “instant feedback” brought about by the web has prompted more risk taking by market participants than when we relied mainly on time-lagged print sources for news and information. (Think of the “casino effect” on human behavior.)
  • PIMCO income A expense ratio
    I owned PIMIX years ago and the ER was something like .60 or .70. For them to be charging 1.XX ERs on classes including their institutional, for that reason alone I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Wonder if they've gotten too comfortable in their ways? *shrug*
    I agree with Ted (yes, it can happen!) that the bloated AUM does not warrant such a high ER unless they're just being greedy. It's practically doubled in 10 years if memory serves. But really, given PIMCO's many black boxes and offsetting swaps and other moving parts, how can one effectively manage a bond fund that big forever? I know complexity breeds expense, but this is bit much imo.
  • PIMCO income A expense ratio
    I've been holding PIMIX for a couple of years now. My timing was a bit off, being that rate hikes bit into my principal, but it does return a good monthly yield. It's my only fixed income fund, and I'll stick with it. From what I can gather, they seem to know what they're doing.
  • Two Steaming Piles Of 403B.S.
    A classic example showing how legislators can be "influenced" by campaign contributions, to the detriment of their constituents.
    Some years ago, I realized how much I was paying in M&E fees to my 403b provider, so I switched to Fidelity. Some restrictions on the Fidelity funds I could purchase, but no fees, except those built into the funds I selected.
    At retirement, I rolled it over to a Fidelity IRA.
    David
  • PIMCO income A expense ratio
    sfnative, thanks for the insight!!!
    Do you are anyone else have any thoughts or opinions regarding the long-term viability of holding onto this fund? I've had it for several years and it has been good, but going forward I do have "some" reservation.
    Are there other more "nimble" options?
    Matt
  • PIMCO income A expense ratio
    @MFO Members: As a holder of Pimco Income Fund I admit the expensive is high, but what concerns me is the size of the fund $103.3 Billion. I beliece it's size has hurt performance over the last couple of years despite Dan Ivascyn's claim that it hasn't
    Here's a chart comparing PIMIX's performance over the past two years with that of the average mult-sector bond, VMBSX (mortgage backed index fund), a couple more mortgage-backed bond funds, and VBLTX (IG bond index fund). It excludes August 2019, when as @mcmarasco points out, PIMIX had anomalous performance.
    Comparison graph 8/13/2017- 8/1/2019
    If fund size were a significant factor over the past couple of years, one would expect this graph to show lackluster performance. That's not how it appears to me.
    Regarding the last eight trading days, this is a fund that uses all sorts of derivatives as well as basic leveraging. Leveraging alone has got to weigh heavily on performance.
    The spread between the 3 month T-bill and the 30 year T-bond has gone from 37 basis points on Aug 1 (2.44% - 2.07%) to 14 basis points (2.14% - 2.00%) in just a few days. Versus the ten year, the spread has fallen from -17 basis points (10 year yielding less) to -35 basis points. Not quite as huge, but still rather dramatic.
    https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/interest-rates/pages/TextView.aspx?data=yield
    Look at the average duration of the fund's holdings. They range from a "high" of 2.14 years for securitized debt through virtually zero for IG and other gov debt (0 ± 0.5%) down to -2.35 years for foreign developed market debt.
    https://www.pimco.com/en-us/investments/mutual-funds/income-fund/inst
    This is a fund positioned for rising rates. It got caught flat footed. It happens, especially with funds that make macro calls. While size limits PIMCO funds' ability to trade on anything but macro movements, that's been true for decades. This is not a recent change because of growth in the past few years.
  • Calling Bonds
    Hi guys & dolls, Bonds being called away is one of the reasons Old_Skeet went to bond mutual funds only becasuse I simply got tired of bonds being called away from me. Seemed as though I'd buy another one and it would get call away after a couple of years, or so, of buying it. Many times I could not replace the bond with another at or about the same interest rate as the called bond without having to pay a premium. And, with this, I decided to just simply buy bond mutual funds.