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Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
  • Vanguard's change in new lower initial investment amount (automatic conversion date)
    VTTVX holds four funds. Along with their weights and ERs, they are:
    Total stock mkt index VTSMX (Inv shares): 37.49%, 0.14% ER
    Total bond mkt II index VTBIX (Inv shares): 26.38%, 0.09% ER
    Total int'l stock index VGTSX (Inv shares): 24.95%, 0.17% ER
    Total int'l bond index VTIBX (Inv shares): 11.12%, 0.13% ER
    None of this is changing. While you, as a retail investor, will have your Investor class shares converted to cheaper Admiral shares, and while new retail investors will be able to buy Admiral shares of these underlying funds for a $3K min, VTTVX will continue to hold the more expensive Investor class shares of these four funds.
    So the cost of owning VTTVX remains: 37.49% x 0.14% + 26.38% x 0.09% + 24.95% x 0.17% + 11.12% x 0.13% = 0.1331%
    Were VTTVX's holdings to be moved to Admiral class shares with ERs of 0.04% (VTSAX), 0.09% (VTBIX - no Admiral shares for Bond II), 0.11% (VTIAX), and 0.11% (VTABX), this fund's expenses would be reduced to 0.0784%.
    Were VTTVX's holdings to be moved to the cheapest share class of each underlying fund, the ERs it would be paying would be: 0.015% (VSTSX, Institutional Select shares), 0.02% (VTBNX, I shares), 0.043% (VTISX, Institutional Select shares), and 0.025% (VSIBX, Institutional Select Shares), the fund's expenses would be a mere 0.0244%.
    By keeping the Investor shares around, and by using those Investor shares in VTTVX, Vanguard is able to collect an extra 0.11% in fees while claiming to have a 0% management fee on VTTVX. This is deceptive. It's using overpriced shares to get paid for managing this fund of funds. I have no issue with Vanguard collecting a nominal fee for running this fund. It's the way it hides the number that is disturbing.
  • Labor Department investigating Fidelity over hidden mutual fund fees--WSJ
    Curious to hear thoughts/comments on this...
    Government Probes Fidelity Over Obscure Mutual-Fund Fees
    Boston-based firm characterizes so-called infrastructure fee as solution to ‘broken’ business model
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/fidelitys-fees-on-low-cost-funds-eyed-in-government-probe-11551263401
  • Help with Int'l/Global
    @Starchild: FWIW.
    Since, the S&P 500 Index now derives better than 40% of it's earnings outside the US I use mostly global funds to gain additional foreign exposure. Please know that it has not always been this way since I became an investor some fifty years ago. So, to gain additional foreign exposure, years back, I used some global funds to offer me more foreign exposure. And, I still do today. My thinking, today, is to still use global funds which allows the fund manager to be somewhat adaptive to the markets by leaning towards which are felt to be the better performers between domestic or foreign holdings while still holding some of each.
    In the growth and income area of my portfolio my global equity sleeve consist of: CWGIX, DEQAX, DWGAX and EADIX. All of these funds pay good dividends.
    In the growth area of my portfolio my global growth sleeve consist of: ANWPX, NEWFX and SMCWX.
    Then there are global allocation funds that can also provide both domestic and foreign exposure. I own a good number of hybrid type funds. Three of them found in the growth & income area of my portfolio in the global hybrid sleeve are CAIBX, TEQIX and TIBAX. All of these funds pay good dividends.
    Most of the above funds I have owned for better than ten years with some more than twenty five.
    Best of luck in your seach for an international or global fund that finds your fancy.
  • Vanguard's change in new lower initial investment amount (automatic conversion date)
    msf: You said; "
    Why aren't Investor class shares simply disappearing then? Because funds like Vanguard Target Retirement 2025 (VTTVX) will still own them. The Vanguard funds of funds own investor class shares so that they can claim they're not adding any expenses on top of the underlying funds"
    If Admiral shares have a lower ER , then the cost would be less ? Only thing I see it's likely the 3 K $$'s hasn't been put into 2025 fund. What Is it that I'm missing/
    Derf
  • Vanguard's change in new lower initial investment amount (automatic conversion date)
    If you are a retail investor in one of the funds above, your shares will be automatically converted into Admiral shares. It's a tax-free exchange.
    At the same time, Admiral shares will have their minimums dropped to $3K, same as Investor class shares.
    At the end of the day, you will have Admiral class shares (with Admiral class ERs) and a $3K min. Investor class shares will still exist, but they'll be pointless for you to buy (since they have higher ERs), and you won't be allowed to anyway.
    Why aren't Investor class shares simply disappearing then? Because funds like Vanguard Target Retirement 2025 (VTTVX) will still own them. The Vanguard funds of funds own investor class shares so that they can claim they're not adding any expenses on top of the underlying funds.
    It would be more honest (or at least more transparent) if the funds owned Admiral (or even better, Institutional) class shares of the underlying funds and simply added on a small management fee, say 0.08% like FFNOX does.
  • Vanguard's change in new lower initial investment amount (automatic conversion date)
    Yes, those admiral classes of index funds (some newly created) will be accessible for $3K to normal investors are listed above. I converted my investor class 500 index fund (VFINX) into the admiral class of the 500 index fund (VFIAX) by accessing my account on line. When I accessed my Vanguard accounts, I was notified that my 500 index fund was eligible for the conversion.
    I believe the Vanguard Dividend Appreciation Index Fund Admiral class was one example of the newly created Admiral class of funds.
  • Vanguard's change in new lower initial investment amount (automatic conversion date)
    The funds listed above are affected by the change and the $3K initial investment.
    Below is the earlier link concerning the change:
    https://www.mutualfundobserver.com/discuss/discussion/45476/vanguard-change-coming
  • Vanguard Makes Tiny ETF Fee Cuts Because There’s Not Much Left To Cut
    "This marks the first time that the ETF share class will charge less than the Admiral share class." (That is, no cuts in the ERs of other share classes, including Admiral class.)
    https://www.morningstar.com/articles/915885/vanguard-cuts-etf-fees.html
  • Vanguard Makes Tiny ETF Fee Cuts Because There’s Not Much Left To Cut
    FYI: Not to be left out of the fee conversation—the first zero-fee exchange-traded funds were filed on Monday—Vanguard Group’s ETFs reported lower expense ratios, annual prospectuses filed Tuesday show. However, fees were cut by one to two basis points at most, suggesting there isn’t much more juice left in the continuing fee wars.
    The 10 ETFs that show lower expense ratios are:
    Regards,
    Ted
    https://www.barrons.com/articles/vanguard-group-makes-tiny-etf-fee-cuts-51551203965?refsec=funds
    WSJ Article:
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/vanguard-ups-the-ante-in-an-etf-race-to-zero-11551184467
  • Vanguard's change in new lower initial investment amount (automatic conversion date)
    https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/225997/000093247119006422/ps_adm112018final.htm
    497 1 ps_adm112018final.htm ADMIRAL SHARES MINIMUM
    Vanguard 500 Index Fund
    Vanguard Balanced Index Fund
    Vanguard Developed Markets Index Fund
    Vanguard Dividend Appreciation Index Fund
    Vanguard Emerging Markets Government Bond Index Fund
    Vanguard Emerging Markets Stock Index Fund
    Vanguard European Stock Index Fund
    Vanguard Extended Market Index Fund
    Vanguard FTSE All-World ex- US Index Fund
    Vanguard Global ex-U. S. Real Estate Index Fund
    Vanguard Growth Index Fund
    Vanguard Intermediate-Term Bond Index Fund
    Vanguard Intermediate-Term Corporate Bond Index Fund
    Vanguard Intermediate-Term Treasury Index Fund
    Vanguard International Dividend Appreciation Index Fund
    Vanguard International High Dividend Yield Index Fund
    Vanguard Large-Cap Index Fund
    Vanguard Long- Term Corporate Bond Index Fund
    Vanguard Long- Term Treasury Index Fund
    Vanguard Mid -Cap Growth Index Fund
    Vanguard Mid -Cap Index Fund
    Vanguard Mid-Cap Value Index Fund
    Vanguard Mortgage -Backed Securities Index Fund
    Vanguard Pacific Stock Index Fund
    Vanguard Real Estate Index Fund
    Vanguard Short-Term Bond Index Fund
    Vanguard Short-Term Corporate Bond Index Fund
    Vanguard Short-Term Inflation -Protected Securities Index Fund
    Vanguard Short-Term Treasury Index Fund
    Vanguard Small- Cap Growth Index Fund
    Vanguard Small- Cap Index Fund
    Vanguard Small- Cap Value Index Fund
    Vanguard Tax-Exempt Bond Index Fund
    Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund
    Vanguard Total International Bond Index Fund
    Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund
    Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund
    Vanguard Value Index Fund
    Supplement to the Prospectuses and Summary Prospectuses for Investor Shares and Admiral"Shares
    Effective November 19, 2018, (i) Admiral Shares have an investment minimum of $3,000, and (ii) Investor Shares are generally closed to new investors. Investor Shares will remain open to existing investors and certain new institutional investors. You may convert your Investor Shares to Admiral Shares at any time by contacting Vanguard.
    It is anticipated that all of the outstanding Investor Shares will be automatically converted to Admiral Shares beginning in April 2019, with the exception of those held by Vanguard funds and certain other institutional investors. At that time, Investor Shares will be available for ongoing investment only by Vanguard funds and certain other institutional investors.
    © 2018 The Vanguard Group, Inc. All rights reserved.
    Vanguard Marketing Corporation, Distributor.
    PS ADM 112018
  • Symons Value Institutional Fund conversion
    https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1199046/000139834419003316/fp0039746_497.htm
    497 1 fp0039746_497.htm
    February 26, 2019
    SYMONS VALUE INSTITUTIONAL FUND (the “Fund”)
    Supplement to the Prospectus and Statement of Additional Information dated February 25, 2019
    Class II shares were added by a prospectus effective February 25, 2019. The Board of Trustees of Unified Series Trust has approved the conversion of the Fund’s Class I shares into Class II shares, which is expected to take place after the close of business on March 27, 2019. Class II shares are not available for purchase until after the conversion has taken place.
    Shareholders who currently hold Class I shares will receive Class II shares equivalent in aggregate value at the time of conversion, and affected shareholders will experience lower net operating expense ratios. The share class conversion is not expected to be a taxable event for federal income tax purposes, and should not result in the recognition of gain or loss by converting shareholders.
    Effective immediately following the conversion of Class I shares into Class II shares, Symons Capital Management, Inc. the Fund’s investment adviser, has contractually agreed to reduce the management fee on Class II shares to 0.90%, and to reduce the expense cap for Class II shares so that total operating expenses (excluding certain expenses described in footnote 2 to the fee table shown below) do not exceed 0.97% of the Fund’s average daily net assets.
    The Fees and Expenses of the Fund and Expense Example sub-sections in the Summary Section of the prospectus will be deleted and replaced as follows:...
  • Help with Int'l/Global
    Be advised that MGGPX is a world fund with a current allocation of roughly 55% US/ 45% foreign and cash. In my opinion this makes it incomparable to your current Int'l holding.
    I am of the very small minority opinion that you don't need a dedicated foreign fund but I do own MGGPX and TIBIX.
    Thank you Mark and Investor. That's not so much a concern, more so having a solid fund with foreign exposure I can add to over time. Even something like VWIGX looks appealing, but I'm still testing the waters.
    MGGPX, at least to my limited knowledge, would not be a core piece, but an add on with potential upside. My concern with the fund, unless others differ, is that buying now feels like chasing past performance, and paying the fees to do so. Also, with such a small basket of stocks, it runs the risk of an easy plummet.
  • Help with Int'l/Global
    Be advised that MGGPX is a world fund with a current allocation of roughly 55% US/ 45% foreign and cash. In my opinion this makes it incomparable to your current Int'l holding.
    I am of the very small minority opinion that you don't need a dedicated foreign fund but I do own MGGPX and TIBIX.
  • Here is what worked best ... this week ... within my portfolio.
    @MikeW: I've got just about all I want in emerging markets. So, I'm now prospecting.
    Often times I reference Ron Rowland's Leadership Strategy which I have linked below for easy viewing.
    http://investwithanedge.com/market-leadership-strategy
    Notice that the most out of favor position within the strategy is micro caps. Well, I've been thinking for sometime to add a micro-cap fund to my portfolio. Now might be a good time for me to open a starter position before the micro caps get discovered and start catching strong money. In this way I can start the holding through a position cost average process and build it over time as it moves up in the pecking order within the strategy.
    I have linked below a micro cap fund that I've had under review for a while. It is off its 52 week high by a little better than 10%. Once you open the link click on fact sheet. Perhaps, its available load fee on some platforms.
    https://www.gabelli.com/Template/fundinfo.cfm?tid=MzA4NWM=&pid=det&rid=7111=edoc_dnuf
    I wish all ... "Good Investing."
  • S&P 500? More Like The S&P 50
    Here’s a well diversified equity fund from T. Rowe Price: T. Rowe Price Spectrum Growth Fund PRSGX (.78% ER). I love this one - but don’t think I’ve ever owned it. While termed a domestic equity fund, it’s currently got 35% invested in foreign stocks. Very well diversified among a dozen or more Price’s actively managed funds.
    Alright - it’s slightly over that .70 figure, but blend it with a 25% slug of their Inflation Protected Bond Fund PRIPX (ER .41) and you’re under below the .70 figure.
  • S&P 500? More Like The S&P 50
    One area in which I'm in agreement with @MJG is that I don't publish my portfolio. How I invest may be totally wrong for someone else. My investments are spread over a wide variety of families, though some of my largest holdings by family include Vanguard, T. Rowe Price, DFA, Harbor, Lazard, American Funds. Institutional class shares when I can get them.
    Most of those families tend to run in the 0.60% to 0.90% ER range. Vanguard and DFA of course are much lower, and since Vanguard is my largest fund family by weight, those funds pull my average ER comfortably below 0.7%. @hank pointed this out also.
    I've got real (i.e. more than placeholder) positions in only a couple of funds costing substantially more than 1%. Small cap int'l - hard to hold that down, and a mid cap fund (but that one's still just a small part of my portfolio).
    The key to keeping one's ER low is not to go wild with funds costing over 1%. If you do that and make liberal use of low cost families, you'll have a modest cost portfolio.
    Sadly, my bond funds don't do much to improve my average ER. While vanilla bond funds (including my vanilla core fund) can be found easily for around 0.45% (see, e.g. DODIX above), multisector and some other categories of bond funds tend to run higher.
  • S&P 500? More Like The S&P 50
    @JoJo26,
    I don’t know what funds @msf might own. But I do know it isn’t hard to put together a pretty well diversified actively managed fund portfolio with an average ER well under that .70% ER figure. I own some D&C myself. Have listed their 6 funds and their ERs below.
    Solid house. Great for really long term investors.
    Dodge & Cox International DODFX .63
    Dodge & Cox Global. DODWX .63
    Dodge & Cox Stock DODGX .52
    Dodge & Cox Balanced DODBX .53
    Dodge & Cox Global Bond DODLX .45
    Dodge & Cox Income DODIX .43
  • S&P 500? More Like The S&P 50
    My blended ER is less than 70 bps. I run everything independently via Fidelity. The core of my portfolio passive equity exposure as it's my belief that active manager add little value in most market segment.

    JoJo26, well done with your overall ER with other advisor fees! Over time, these fees really add up quickly. There are more ETFs and actively managed ETFs with NO trading commission at large brokerages (Fidelity and Schwab) available today. Vanguard is working hard to catch up in this offering.

    My blended ER is also less than 70 bps. I run everything independently via a variety of channels (including direct, brokerages, insurance companies, banks). The core, in fact all of my current portfolio is actively invested, whether equity or fixed income.
    As OJ wrote, if you like American Funds, and if you have enough invested with them, you can construct a substantially different type of actively managed portfolio than mine and not have to scurry from channel to channel. No broker fees, no loads, low cost.
    If you want to work at it, it may be possible (without using a 401k) to buy R5 shares for some American Funds at an "all in" cost that's lower than A shares (or F-1 shares) cost. Though sometimes saving a just few bucks may not seem worth the effort. Especially if it takes a long term commitment to pay off.
    Nevertheless, that's how you shave a quarter percent off of TCMPX (TCMIX avail at Fidelity and Vanguard with a $25K min + TF in IRAs); that's how you cut a few basis points off FMIMX (FMIUX avail at Fidelity with a $2500 min + TF in IRAs), and how you save a whopping 37 bps on QUSOX (QUSIX at Fidelity w/$2500 min + TF in IRAs).
    I don't know what "Vanguard is working hard to catch up in this offering" means (ETFs?). Vanguard is the
    second largest sponsor of ETFs. Schwab and Fidelity are pumping out PR about selling 500 ETFs without fees, while Vanguard offers about 1800 ETFs without TFs.
    May I ask what actively managed funds you're using to to have a total blend of less than 70 bps when they're all active.
  • Best To Leave Chinese Bond Investing To The Pros For A While: (DSUM) - (KCCB)
    Probably nothing better that MAINX for Asian bonds. 35% China, 15% Hong Kong. It's a ride, but I like the fund.
  • Here is what worked best ... this week ... within my portfolio.
    @MikeW: The barometer follows the S&P 500 Index. Another means that I use to find value is to see how far below a fund is trading form it's 52 week high. Take my two emerging market funds. DWGAX is off its 52 week high by about 12% while NEWFX is off its 52 week high by about 8%. With this, I'm finding more value in DWGAX than NEWFX. One of my investment strategies through the years has been to buy some in my most out of favor holdings in belief that they will again find favor with investors. Most of the time they do. And, for me, this has worked better through the years than momentum based strategies (buying what is hot and in favor).