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That's a good suggestion. Most threads begin to suffer from drift after three pages. Sorting out the back and forth between posters becomes more tedious. And it's not like threads are being rationed.@dtconroe -
I have a second suggestion also. Your discussion post "Bond OEF investing for more conservative investors" is a fine, fine post and holds a great deal of interest for many of the visitors to the MFO discussion board, me included. However, you will note that one must now move through 5 (at last count) pages to read the whole thing. Might I suggest that in the future you initiate new discussion topics such as your "Bank Loan/Floating Rate OEF's", "Non Traditional Bond OEF's" and "Muni Bond Investing" as entirely new discussion threads rather than as one continuous stream as they are now situated. I recognize that they are all about bond OEF investing but I also think it's easy for folks to get lost as more comments are posted along the way in attempting to discern which of the introduced topics the comment pertains to. Just a thought.
First, I don't have to invest in a taxable account. Most investors have much more money in their IRA.DODFX vs HFQTX depends on whether you're investing in a tax-sheltered account (where you're losing the benefit of the foreign tax credit) or in a taxable account.
In a taxable account, one pays a cost for the Janus fund's frenetic trading (142% turnover ratio).
Comparing the tax adjusted returns for HFQIX (a lower cost, longer lifetime share class) with DODFX:DODFX HFQIXAll figures as of 12/31/19
1 yr 21.06% 18.12%
3 yr 6.76% 4.11%
5 yr 2.88% 2.63%
10 yr 4.95% 4.46%
http://performance.morningstar.com/fund/tax-analysis.action?t=DODFX
http://performance.morningstar.com/fund/tax-analysis.action?t=HFQIX
The useful features at M* are free. I have found the data here worth paying for.I have not completely left M*. I greatly value its Portfolio section, where I have numerous watch lists of funds, in which I can set up a large array of fund components,that I monitor on an ongoing basis. The Portfolio section provides easy access to a large amount of fund analytical data, and comparative capabilities, which I use extensively in due diligence processes. I do believe that changes in the M* platform, have made it more difficult to access data that I previously valued, but even with many flaws there, it still is very valuable to me.
Here are the specific Capture Metrics:
Upside Capture compares the positive return of a fund, comprised of positive month ending returns, to one of four indexes, over evaluation period specified, measured in percentage. So, compared to SP500, an Upside Capture of 120% means the fund retuned or "captured" 20% more positive return than SP500 over the evaluation period specified.
Downside Capture compares the negative return of a fund, comprised of its negative month ending returns, to one of four indexes, over evaluation period specified, measured in percentage. So, compared to SP500, a Downside Capture of 80% means the fund retuned or "captured" only 80% of downside that the SP500 over the evaluation period specified.
Capture Ratio is simple the ratio of Upside To Downside Capture. Values greater than 1.0 means that a fund capture more upside than downside compared to its reference fund ... a good thing!
Up Months is simply number of months with positive returns of index over evaluation period specified.
Down Months is simply number of months with negative returns of index over evaluation period specified.
Duration is 1.9 years, SEC yield 1.56% and ER 0.07%.
It's mostly foreign, and classified as an infrastructure sector fund based in the US, just as MGGPX is a US Fund World Large Stock fund, i.e. a US based global fund.I've used two for some time now, MGGPX a world fund and GLFOX a sector fund mentioned by WABAC which M* categorizes as a US Infrastructure fund but it's mostly not. I would love to hear the logic behind that placement.
https://www.morningstar.com/articles/751882/growing-fund-choices-spur-4-new-categoriesWhat types of firms do infrastructure funds invest in?
Infrastructure funds primarily invest in energy, industrial, utilities, and telecom firms that hold long-duration assets that generate stable cash flows. Examples include toll road operators, pipeline firms, airports, cell tower owners, and electric and gas utilities.
What are the general traits of infrastructure funds?
Prior to the creation of the infrastructure category, most of the funds were classified as world-stock funds. Typically, these funds have about a 30% to 50% allocation in U.S. stocks with the remainder invested in firms domiciled in the developed world. These funds, on average, tend to exhibit lower beta relative to the market.
DODFX HFQIXAll figures as of 12/31/19
1 yr 21.06% 18.12%
3 yr 6.76% 4.11%
5 yr 2.88% 2.63%
10 yr 4.95% 4.46%
Sec yield is not an accurate number.@dtconroe
Regarding Tax Cost Ratio (TCR), I don't recall what tax rate / bracket M* uses to calculate the value. The definition M* provides is silent on the topic. For munis, with a TCR of 0% the issue is moot. Perhaps I don't understand TCR fully, but for taxable bond funds, the tax impact is tied to one's specific tax situation / tax rate and whether they are close to a breakpoint in tax brackets. The tax impact of interest / dividends for someone in the 15% tax bracket is different than for someone in the 22% bracket or higher. State and local taxes also need to be considered to get a full picture. Seems like TCR is more a relative vs. absolute measure and one needs to do further due diligence to get the full picture for their particular situation.
This M* widget at the dinky linky seems to be designed for comparing individual bonds, but I don't see why it wouldn't work for funds. It allows you to enter your Federal and State tax rates. I used the latestSEC yields for the funds I was comparing when I looked into adding a taxable bond fund to my taxed account.
dinky linky.
@WABAC: Yes, that calculator works for many situations. It does not account for Qualified Dividends which are taxed at a lower rate than ordinary dividends (0% for lower tax brackets). Some taxable bond funds hold assets which qualify for Qualified Dividend tax treatment but that info is not readily available nor factored into most calculators. While I have used the M* calculator or similar ones, for my situation, I have often found the best assessment is found by doing what if scenarios in tax software, like TurboTax, or one of the many tax estimators available online because there can be many moving parts and interactions in the tax calculations that the simple calculator does not address. At least that has been the case for my situation. As always, your mileage may vary.@dtconroe
Regarding Tax Cost Ratio (TCR), I don't recall what tax rate / bracket M* uses to calculate the value. The definition M* provides is silent on the topic. For munis, with a TCR of 0% the issue is moot. Perhaps I don't understand TCR fully, but for taxable bond funds, the tax impact is tied to one's specific tax situation / tax rate and whether they are close to a breakpoint in tax brackets. The tax impact of interest / dividends for someone in the 15% tax bracket is different than for someone in the 22% bracket or higher. State and local taxes also need to be considered to get a full picture. Seems like TCR is more a relative vs. absolute measure and one needs to do further due diligence to get the full picture for their particular situation.
This M* widget at the dinky linky seems to be designed for comparing individual bonds, but I don't see why it wouldn't work for funds. It allows you to enter your Federal and State tax rates. I used the latest SEC yields for the funds I was comparing when I looked into adding a taxable bond fund to my taxed account.
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