@Junkster, have you already written about why ST trading of mfunds is ever a good idea, rather than giving the manager(s) a year or three or four to work their approach ?

Yes I wrote about it in a book long ago as well as a couple seminars, magazine articles. My account is seven figures to the better than had I simply put it in an S&P index fund or scattered my monies among a 1001 funds for diversification purposes. Because I only worked part time, low paying minimum wage type jobs, my total lifetime contributions through 2012 to my IRA beginning in April 1993 was limited to only $76,000. My taxable account only $2200 in 1985. What kind of nest egg would those total contributions have netted this 71 year old now had I simply let it ride in an index fund or followed conventional wisdom?

As you can see, I edited my response while you were writing yours. I did try rereading your post until I could see what you were getting at.
I hope you'll read my last (updated) paragraph to see that one can pull off $5 round trips at Fidelity, with the proviso that one leaves a small amount in the TF fund for the next round trip. I have done this, but my round trips unlike yours last years.

Wrong and more wrong! Where do you get TD doesn’t usually charge a short term redemption fee on their TF funds.

I got it from their schedule of commissions and fees. Any time I am charged something not explicitly stated in a fee schedule I insist that the charge be refunded:

"No-transaction-fee (NTF) funds (except ProFunds and Rydex) held 180 days or less are subject to a Short-Term Redemption fee of $49.99."
https://www.tdameritrade.com/retail-en_us/resources/pdf/TDA4075.pdf

If you prefer web pages, here's TDAmeritrade's pricing page:
https://www.tdameritrade.com/pricing.page

Please note: No-transaction fee (NTF) funds (except ProFunds and Rydex) held 180 days or less are subject to a Short-Term Redemption fee, which is a flat fee of $49.99. This fee is in addition to any fees addressed in the fund's prospectus.

Compare that with Scottrade, that explicitly charged short term fees on

all no load funds, NTF and TF:

Mutual Funds5
...
5In addition to the commissions above, all no-load shares purchased from Scottrade and held 90 days or less will be charged a short-term redemption fee. Exceptions to this short-term redemption fee are the Rydex, Guggenheim, ProFunds and Direxion families of funds, which are intended for short-term traders. ...

https://web.archive.org/web/20170206185458/https://www.scottrade.com/online-brokerage/trading-fees-commissions.html#tab2
From what you wrote, it sounds like you're paying $17 instead of $0 because TDA is still holding you to that old agreement. Cheaper to buy TF funds, but more expensive to sell. The standard (read: usual) TDA schedule is $49.99 to buy, $0 to sell.
If I've missed reading the fee for standard (not grandfathered) TDA customers, I'll gladly acknowledge my error. It's been a long day.

Yes, it must have been a long day. We are talking about transaction fee funds here. And your comment that TD doesn’t charge a short term redemption fee on TF funds. Then you go into a soliloquy on NTF funds showing TD’s schedule of fees for NTF funds. TD charges 49.99 to purchase a TF fund as well as 49.99 to sell if sold within 180 days. Because I am a former Scottrade customer I am charged $17 to buy and $17 to sell if sold within 180 days. I pay $34 per round trip. Among the larger brokerage firms with a large selection of funds ala Fidelity, Schwab, Vanguard, and TD, $34 is the lowest price for such round trips. At Scottrade I was charged $17 to purchase a TF fund and an onerous $66 to sell if sold within 90 days.

Wrong and more wrong! Where do you get TD doesn’t usually charge a short term redemption fee on their TF funds.

I got it from their schedule of commissions and fees.

"No-transaction-fee (NTF) funds (except ProFunds and Rydex) held 180 days or less are subject to a Short-Term Redemption fee of $49.99."
https://www.tdameritrade.com/retail-en_us/resources/pdf/TDA4075.pdf

Compare that with Scottrade, that explicitly charged short term fees on all no load funds, NTF and TF:

Mutual Funds5
...
5In addition to the commissions above, all no-load shares purchased from Scottrade and held 90 days or less will be charged a short-term redemption fee. Exceptions to this short-term redemption fee are the Rydex, Guggenheim, ProFunds and Direxion families of funds, which are intended for short-term traders. ...

https://web.archive.org/web/20170206185458/https://www.scottrade.com/online-brokerage/trading-fees-commissions.html#tab2
I think we're talking about two different things here. Since the thread was about short term redemption fees, that's what I was addressing - fees added to whatever fee would be charged to sell the shares. Most brokerages don't add a short term fee when selling TF funds. That includes TDA.
Upon a third read, it looks like you may be saying that the total fee for you to sell a TF fund is $17. Not that it is adding a $17 short term redemption fee. So you are paying $17 (grandfathered TF fee) plus $0 short term fee. Which says that TDA is honoring its policy (that most brokerages share) of not adding a short term redemption fee to the sale of any non-NTF fund.
I stand by my statement that TDA doesn't charge a short term redemption fee on TF funds. It still charges a routine fee to sell TF funds, just like most brokerages aside from Fidelity and Schwab.
FWIW, when I buy TF funds at Fidelity, and I do buy a fair amount of them, most of the time I pay $5/transaction. My round trip costs are usually $5. Since I keep a toe hold in funds I like (especially when the fund is closed), I can always add to my minimal position for a $5 fee. Selling costs nothing at Fidelity, and as near as I can tell, Fidelity won't charge me a short term fee for those funds.

Wrong and more wrong! Where do you get TD doesn’t usually charge a short term redemption fee on their TF funds. They charge $49.99 for TF funds held less than 180 days. As for many brokerages charging 0 for exiting a TF fund, they charge you on the entry such as Fidelity’s $49.95. TD grandfathered in for Scottrade account holders $17 for purchases of TF funds and so far at least have been charging $17 for exits. Scottrade charged some $66.00 for exits $17 plus $49. Basically, I am paying $34 total buying and selling a TF fund at TD. That is less than I am charged for the short term trading of a non transaction fee fund there (49.99) as well as trading a transaction fee fund elsewhere. Do you ever do any short term trading of mutual funds? Most likely not so how in blue blazes do you have any hands on experiences to even make such inane and inaccurate comments on the topic??

That is high for exiting a TF position. Many brokerages charge $0 (though they may still limit the number of short round trips you make).
"Fidelity charges a short-term trading fee each time you sell or exchange shares of a FundsNetwork NTF fund held less than 60 days. This fee does not apply to Fidelity funds, money market funds, FundsNetwork Transaction Fee funds, FundsNetwork load funds ..."
"Schwab’s short-term redemption fee of $49.95 will be charged on redemption of funds purchased through Schwab’s Mutual Fund OneSource service (and certain other funds with no transaction fees) and held for 90 days or less." (OneSource is Schwab's name for NTF funds.)
"To discourage short-term trading, E*TRADE Securities will charge an Early Redemption Fee of $49.99 on redemptions or exchanges of no-load, no transaction fee funds that are held less than 90 days."
Even TD Ameritrade doesn't usually charge a short term redemption fee on TF funds. Sounds like you're getting the "short" end of the stick.
"No-transaction-fee (NTF) funds (except ProFunds and Rydex) held 180 days or less are subject to a Short-Term Redemption fee of $49.99."
https://www.tdameritrade.com/retail-en_us/resources/pdf/TDA4075.pdf

That is high for exiting a TF position. Many brokerages charge $0 (though they may still limit the number of short round trips you make).
"Fidelity charges a short-term trading fee each time you sell or exchange shares of a FundsNetwork NTF fund held less than 60 days. This fee does not apply to Fidelity funds, money market funds, FundsNetwork Transaction Fee funds, FundsNetwork load funds ..."
"Schwab’s short-term redemption fee of $49.95 will be charged on redemption of funds purchased through Schwab’s Mutual Fund OneSource service (and certain other funds with no transaction fees) and held for 90 days or less." (OneSource is Schwab's name for NTF funds.)
"To discourage short-term trading, E*TRADE Securities will charge an Early Redemption Fee of $49.99 on redemptions or exchanges of no-load, no transaction fee funds that are held less than 90 days."
Even TD Ameritrade doesn't usually charge a short term redemption fee on TF funds. Sounds like you're getting the "short" end of the stick.
"No-transaction-fee (NTF) funds (except ProFunds and Rydex) held 180 days or less are subject to a Short-Term Redemption fee of $49.99."
https://www.tdameritrade.com/retail-en_us/resources/pdf/TDA4075.pdf

That is high for exiting a TF position. Many brokerages charge $0 (though they may still limit the number of short round trips you make).
"Fidelity charges a short-term trading fee each time you sell or exchange shares of a FundsNetwork NTF fund held less than 60 days. This fee does not apply to Fidelity funds, money market funds, FundsNetwork Transaction Fee funds, FundsNetwork load funds ..."
"Schwab’s short-term redemption fee of $49.95 will be charged on redemption of funds purchased through Schwab’s Mutual Fund OneSource service (and certain other funds with no transaction fees) and held for 90 days or less." (OneSource is Schwab's name for NTF funds.)
"To discourage short-term trading, E*TRADE Securities will charge an Early Redemption Fee of $49.99 on redemptions or exchanges of no-load, no transaction fee funds that are held less than 90 days."
Even TD Ameritrade doesn't usually charge a short term redemption fee on TF funds. Sounds like you're getting the "short" end of the stick.
"No-transaction-fee (NTF) funds (except ProFunds and Rydex) held 180 days or less are subject to a Short-Term Redemption fee of $49.99."
https://www.tdameritrade.com/retail-en_us/resources/pdf/TDA4075.pdf

TRP had a 90 day holding period with a 2% 'early trade' penalty and TDA has a 180-day holding period for a $50 'early sale' penalty. I just dumped a TRP at Day 90 to avoid the 2% ... .

T. Rowe began imposing early redemption fees on select funds around the time of the frequent trading scandles involving Dick Strong and other insiders (late 90’s or early 2000s). T. Rowe was not involved. But there were rumors that some of their international funds were being successfully “gamed” by schrewd investors taking advantage of the time disparity between international markets and the U.S. Around that time, SEC began allowing fair value pricing on international funds (another topic) which Price also adapted.
Initially, only a handful of Price’s funds were affected. The list has grown over the years and now extends to some domestic funds as well. Occasionally I’ll forget to check and get tripped-up by one of these fees. To their credit, Price is endeavoring to achieve a fairer playing field for all. Investors who successfully game a fund on a regular basis can/do lower the returns for everyone else. Price rolls these fees back into the affected funds for the benefit of long-term holders.
Price uses “first in / first out” for computation. So you might add to a fund in August and than sell the same amount in September. No fee is applied as long as the amount sold doesn’t exceed the amount you’ve held in the fund for the required period. While 90 days and 2% seems to be the norm, a few funds, like real estate and high yield bond, have only 1% fees. And, one fund (noted below) has a 365-day holding period. This information is published in the Prospectus of each and every T. Rowe Price fund (whether affected or not). Here’s the list of affected funds as near as I can get.
Africa & Middle East
Asia Opportunities
Credit Opportunities
Emerging Europe
Emerging Markets Bond
Emerging Markets Corporate Bond
Emerging Markets Local Currency Bond
Emerging Markets Stock
Emerging Markets Value Stock
Equity Index 500
European Stock
Extended Equity Market Index
Floating Rate
Global Growth Stock
Global High Income Bond
Global Real Estate
Global Stock
High Yield
Intermediate Tax-Free High Yield
International Bond
International Bond Fund (USD Hedged)
International Concentrated Equity
International Discovery
International Equity Index
International Stock
International Value Equity
Japan
Latin America
New Asia
Overseas Stock
QM Global Equity
QM U.S. Small & Mid-Cap Core Equity
QM U.S. Small-Cap Growth Equity
Real Assets
Real Estate
Small-Cap Value
Spectrum International
*Tax-Efficient Equity (365 days)
Tax-Free High Yield
Total Equity Market Index
U.S. Bond Enhanced Index
U.S. High Yield

fundalarm and others,
I only mentioned the K-1 because it was issued by an MLP....and preferreds issued by publicly-traded partnerships that issue K-1s, issue K-1s. Non-partnerships do not. And since NSS is a debt instrument, it doesn't issue a K-1 so it should be safe to hold in any account (but it is NOT QDI so probably better to hold in an IRA or other tax qualified account.

i've been buying those for clients. only the QDI paying - equity preferreds that are fixed for a few years and then either get called or start floating with the 3 mo LIBOR and a nice spread. the equity preferreds dont produce K1.

@Ted for a little “higher on the risk spectrum” floating rate preferred (actually a note...it’s debt, not a preferred stock, so no K-1 issues to deal with) to add to something like ALLY-A, maybe look at NSS (NuStar Logistics 7.625% fixed-to-floating subordinated note). It’s yielding approx 9%. Holding about 2% position and not looking to add, but would if it was smaller or I didn’t own it.

i've been buying those for clients. only the QDI paying - equity preferreds that are fixed for a few years and then either get called or start floating with the 3 mo LIBOR and a nice spread. the equity preferreds dont produce K1.

@Ted for a little “higher on the risk spectrum” floating rate preferred (actually a note...it’s debt, not a preferred stock, so no K-1 issues to deal with) to add to something like ALLY-A, maybe look at NSS (NuStar Logistics 7.625% fixed-to-floating subordinated note). It’s yielding approx 9%. Holding about 2% position and not looking to add, but would if it was smaller or I didn’t own it.

VWIGX keeps showing up on my screeners...low ER.. Large Cap Foreign Growth fund.
Here its footprint:

I Hold FMIJX. Since its inception (2010) it has provided a smoother ride. I believe charting other funds against FMIJX will reveal the volatility of other funds (both over and under) and might be a tool for identifying when these funds are over performing or under performing.
Comparing FMIJX to (VWIGX, DODFX,& MSILX) since inception:

Since the 1/26/2018 market high:

Still have 12-15 yrs ahead before retirement probably can afford another recession or Two... Full speed ahead I guess .. buy equities bonds and stocks like previously

I invest directly with Bruce Funds (BRUFX) for my HSA. My only fees are the funds ER (0.71%) and a $15/yr account maintenance fee. Returns have average 6% since I started. Other HSA providers offer a host of investment choices. If your employer's HSA plan has limited investment choices or high fees you can complete a once a year rollover or a trustee to trustee transfer to another HSA providers (of your choosing).
how-to-rollover-an-hsa-on-your-own-and-avoid-trustee-transfer-fee
Here's a M* report:

Health savings accounts are a very under-researched corner of the market. Investors have few resources available to help them navigate the hundreds of plan providers that exist. Health savings accounts have recently grown in popularity, but the lack of resources has likely contributed to their under utilization as a savings vehicle despite their valuable tax benefits. To provide a comprehensive resource for investors and employers selecting a plan, we assessed 10 of the largest HSA plan providers in this report. We evaluated the plans through two separate lenses: using them as a spending vehicle to cover current medical costs, and using them as an investment vehicle to save for future medical expenses.

Link for full Report:
2017_Health_Savings_Account_Landscape

FYI: This chart shows historical performance of the S&P 500 Index
throughout the U.S. Bull and Bear Markets from 1926 through
June 2018. Although past performance is no guarantee of future
results, we believe looking at the history of the market’s
expansions and recessions helps to gain a fresh perspective on
the benefits of investing for the long-term
Regards,
Ted
https://www.ftportfolios.com/Common/ContentFileLoader.aspx?ContentGUID=4ecfa978-d0bb-4924-92c8-628ff9bfe12d

Something I don't understand is why any investment (aside from cash equivalents) should be considered acceptable for short term needs:
"If you're selling out of an active MF within 6 months, then you have no business investing in it. Just buy a bunch of index ETFs or a target date fund"
Active bad, passive good?
"These are long term investment products unlike individual securities or ETFs."
It's okay to use any investment so long as it has low/no commissions?
We can dismiss the impact to the fund itself - that's taken care of by the fund's own redemption fee (which goes back into the fund to compensate it for trading costs/market movement). Here we're talking about brokerage fees, not fund redemption fees.
So the question is, from the investor (as opposed to fund) perspective, does it ever make sense to count on index ETFs or target date funds, or individual securities or any (active or index) ETFs, as a place to keep short term (under 6 month) money?
IMHO, the answer is no, with the possible exception of individual securities, if you're buying them because you (think you) see an obvious mispricing that you want to take advantage of and flip quickly.
Actively managed funds (whether open end or ETF) may be more unpredictable in the short term than indexes, but that doesn't mean one can count on an index fund not taking a dive in the next few months.
Target date funds, especially in the short run, are basically just hybrid funds (glide path significantly affects allocations only over years). With roughly zero correlation between stocks and bonds, sometimes the components will move in opposite directions, sometimes not. You don't know if this time, this month, they're both going to drop.
https://www.ft.com/content/7914a096-48a9-11e8-8ee8-cae73aab7ccb
"in case something comes up and you need to sell"
I read that as an unexpected, large expense (roof blew off, car suddenly died, etc.). If one's six month plus emergency fund isn't enough to handle the rare, unexpected expense, then sure, one will need to sell some longer term investment.
I wouldn't expect a need like that to occur more than once every several years. It's not worth picking a brokerage on the possibility of incurring a $50 fee every few years. It seems better to focus on routine costs/fees, service, accessibility, etc.

@hank, concur with your view on the market condition and the political turmoil. Opportunities with 25% discount are difficult to come by unless US enters recession now. Thus I continue to watch to find better entry points.

@hank Emerging markets, as measured by EEM, down about 20% since their high in January... so just 5% more to go.

Funny that TRP had a 90 day holding period with a 2% 'early trade' penalty and TDA has a 180-day holding period for a $50 'early sale' penalty.
I just dumped a TRP at Day 90 to avoid the 2% (which would've been a few hundred bucks) but still got hit with the $50 TD penalty. 180 days is asinine, imho.

Just me. But I don’t think this is a good time to be buying anything you don’t already own (unless you’re still working and contributing regularily).
Admittedly, this comes from someone who’s on the conservative side. But there’s just too many “balls in motion” all at once here to give me any comfort. We’ve got some serious investigations going on, increasingly bitter political strife, deficits made worse by the tax cuts, a trade war, a Federal Reserve raising rates, legitimate concerns over valuations - and we haven’t had a really nasty recession / market correction in over a decade. Why would any of this make you optimistic?
I’m not recommending folks sell what they already own or that they stop contributing to their tax deferred plans. But the question from JohnN presumes, I think, that this may be a good time to do some tactical / strategic buying - that you might not normally do. Find me as asset class (except for gold) that’s down 25% or more over the past year and I’ll take a good hard look at it.

I believe the amount is tied to what is equal to an deductible/non-deductible retirement account. I believe it was $6K initially. Maximum investment amount initially advertised was $100K, but due to overwhelming interest, maximum investment was lowered to $50K to appease investors.
From the 2015 Allocation email:
"Thank you for your interest in our new Global Micro Cap Fund (GPMCX). As anticipated, requests from current Grandeur Peak Fund shareholders far exceeded our $25 million target. During the Indication of Interest window we received requests totaling over $85 million. We have allocated the available $25M across all parties who expressed interest. Our allocation objective was to be fair and consistent across shareholders and to allow all interested shareholders an opportunity to purchase the Fund. We capped larger requests at a consistent level in order to keep our total allocation to around $25M. Keeping the Fund at this very small size will allow us to be fairly unconstrained as we look for interesting micro-cap investments across the globe.
,,,We will hold your allocation through October 30, 2015, so please ensure all trades are placed by that date. If you wish to set up an automatic investment plan, you may do so, but the maximum purchase size is $500/month (this amount can be in addition to your stated allocation). Unlike our other hard closures, retirement accounts will not have unlimited access to make future purchases in this Fund. Retirement accounts will be capped at $6000/year for future purchases."
From the most recent prospectus:
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/915802/000139834417011117/fp0027624_485bpos.htm
PURCHASE AND SALE OF FUND SHARES
As of the close of business on December 31, 2016, the Fund is closed to both new and existing investors seeking to purchase shares of the Fund either directly or through third party intermediaries, subject to certain exceptions for participants in certain qualified retirement plans with an existing position in the Fund and direct shareholders with existing accounts who may purchase up to the amount of the current IRA catch up limit per year in additional shares, regardless of account type. The Fund’s investment adviser retains the ability, subject to the oversight of the Board, to make exceptions to any action taken to close the Fund or limit inflows into the Fund.

@Derf: I can't recall how I found out, but after opening my account in 2015, I made purchases in 2016 and 2017 for $6K each year. I'm pretty sure GP announced it and $6K is the yearly limit. Someone may remember what the maximum opening purchase limit was; $25K sticks in my mind. I put in less than that.