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Falling knife, are you willing to get cut !

2023 year-to-date
Company Ticker % ch. year-to-date Market value loss ($ billion) Sector
Pfizer (PFE) -44.6% -$128.9 Health Care
Chevron (CVX) -15.9% -$53.7 Energy
Johnson & Johnson (JNJ) -12.0% -$51.0 Health Care
NextEra Energy (NEE) -28.5% -$48.9 Utilities
Bristol-Myers Squibb (BMY) -27.4% -$40.1 Health Care
Estee Lauder (EL) -41.8% -$37.1 Consumer Staples
Exxon Mobil (XOM) -7.6% -$33.5 Energy
Moderna (MRNA) -47.2% -$32.3 Health Care
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Comments

  • edited December 2023
    You first @Derf. Let us know how it works out.

    Healthcare’s had a tough ride in ‘23. Something I’ve never been interested in from an investing standpoint. Potential for litigation issues alone make them too dicey for me. And I’ve witnessed enough tech high-wire acts and steep plunges in my life not to want to buy a tech company. (As part of a broadly diversified fund I’d have no objection.)

    Next thing - you’ll be looking at the ”steep underdog” sports betting opportunities on DKNG!

    BTW - The “guru”s on Bloomberg are all over the place this morning advising investors to begin transitioning from cash into equities - now that the S&P’s gained about 30% off its recent lows. Never fails!
  • Own a number of these knives already through BRUFX…NÉE,PFE… many other wounded stocks in its portfolio.
  • hank said:

    You first @Derf. Let us know how it works out.

    Healthcare’s had a tough ride in ‘23. Something I’ve never been interested in from an investing standpoint. Potential for litigation issues alone make them too dicey for me. And I’ve witnessed enough tech high-wire acts and steep plunges in my life not to want to buy a tech company. (As part of a broadly diversified fund I’d have no objection.)

    Next thing - you’ll be looking at the ”steep underdog” sports betting opportunities on DKNG!

    BTW - The “guru”s on Bloomberg are all over the place this morning advising investors to begin transitioning from cash into equities - now that the S&P’s gained about 30% off its recent lows. Never fails!

    Yeah, really. I noticed a small drug company stock a few weeks ago that I was going to take a flyer on but got tied up with end-of-semester stuff and didn't have the time to put my order in. This past week, it's been up 5-15% every day (incl during premarkets0 and nearly doubled since i noticed it in mid-December. While I'm sure it will be a long-term winner given the drug sector it's in, I'm definitely not chasing it.

    That said, I'm still putting $$ to work on QDI stocks, preferred stocks, and my first ever purchase in the BDC space.
  • edited December 2023
    I've held HC fund, JAGLX, without much gain this year, but I think it would be a mistake to sell the Health Care sector now. Besides, I added it as a buy and hold. Buy individual HC stocks? - probably not. On the Energy side, I made a couple bets on the sector last month buying CVX and CNQ (Canadian Natural Resources). I think I added on the low side, but time will tell.

    I'm hoping HC and Energy outperform in 2024 (You can always hope:) ), but I'm also thinking 2024 will be a "sell in May" type of year.

  • edited December 2023
    rforno said:

    I noticed a small drug company stock a few weeks ago that I was going to take a flyer on but got tied up with end-of-semester stuff and didn't have the time to put my order in. This past week, it's been up 5-15% every day (incl during premarkets0 and nearly doubled since i noticed it in mid-December.

    Makes sports betting look tame by comparison.:)

    I’d guess money is there to be made by folks willing to (1) do the research (2) invest an awful lot of time & effort into trading a basket of those stocks and (3) having the courage of their conviction / being able to add more $$ or sit tight when something falls further. (Who needs it?)

    My 10% in individual stocks is split among (1) a mega-dollar international food conglomerate, (2) a large U.S. drug / grocery retailer and (3) a large insurance co. / equity conglomerate (not BRK). The latter replaced a small cap conglomerate which has only continued to rise since I sold a few weeks ago.

    I tried exiting all individual stocks for a couple days back in Oct. or Nov. The withdrawal symptoms proved too great …
  • Yes but mostly no. I picked up a bit of PFE 6 wks ago, and held on to POAGX (lots of biotech held there) hoping for a healthcare rebound of sorts although I've come to eschew the sector for many of the reasons expressed so far. I've never shown a great ability at selecting individual winners and losers in the sector outside of taking a flyer on ABBV a few years ago. Same holds true for financials and energy. I let my broad based ETF's deal with those 3 areas for the most part.
  • edited December 2023
    As to @Derf’s question, mostly no. I confess that my hand picked sector funds are all down this year, VPU (-8.4%), VDC (1.3%), and VHT (1.6%). I will stay with them until they recover next year. Otherwise, I will stay with diversified stock funds and simply my portfolio.
  • Took a peek at EL. Late to the party already ! Low on 10/31 $104.5 up 37+% at $145.
  • edited December 2023
    "Natural Resources" fund--- aka "energy"--- PRNEX is one I own. Not just oil and gas, but I suppose they are the ones which dominate. The fund is floating daily between a tiny loss and a tiny gain. Reflects my own results, due to the spot where I bought.
    YTD +2.32%.
    27 Dec, '23.
    My other energy selection is a single-stock ET. Seems to be a huge manipulation target. But don't buy it for the growth; the dividend is over 9%, and don't forget the current litigation.
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/energy-transfer-accused-boxing-louisiana-130000709.html
    ...To say nothing of the Dakota Pipeline and the "hold" put on any extensions on the calendar in order to get that thing in Louisiana done, completed and finished.

    ET YTD +27.71%. I have just bumped into a note somewhere saying ET is "awash" in cash. Dunno how that can be, with all the lawyers' fees, takeovers and mergers. And Management has a penchant for over-paying when it comes to buying-out the competition. Still, it's the BIGGEST outfit in that sector.
  • edited December 2023
    @Crash - Yes, I noticed PRNEX hasn’t exactly shot the lights out this year. FWIW here’s a thread I posted early in the year related to NR funds.

    https://mutualfundobserver.com/discuss/discussion/60941/anybody-care-to-recommend-a-good-natural-resources-etf#latest

    I just learned that GRES (the only one I thought promising back than) has shut-down since the thread went up. I continue to hang on to a CEF in the NR area which has done OK for me. Generally, NR seems a “funky” area to invest in with winners and losers depending on what aspect of NR they focus on and whatever particular methodology they employ.
  • +1.
    True, @hank.
    In January every year, I always pull a slug from the IRA. This year ('24) I've decided I will grab it from PRNEX. I'm thinking about the "opportunity cost." The yield on that pig is generous--- over 4%, but that's not all that I'm looking for. A peek at short and medium and long-range past performance shows PRNEX is a dud, plain and simple. I'm soon going to close it out and redeploy the $$$ into TUHYX and perhaps PRCFX---- once the lovely and fabulous people at TRP actually post the Fund's holdings. I want growth, but want to come by it more conservatively---- owning less in stocks, going forward.

    I'm already at 61 stocks, 33 bonds.
    Happy New Year, everyone!
  • edited December 2023
    @Crash said, I'm already at 61 stocks, 33 bonds.
    Stock funds, right? How do you manage them? I am trying to considerate to less than 20 stock and bond funds/ETFs.
  • Sven said:

    @Crash said, I'm already at 61 stocks, 33 bonds.
    Stock funds, right? How do you manage them? I am trying to considerate to less than 20 stock and bond funds/ETFs.
    Just today, I rearranged the deck chairs, pulling about $7,500 from PRNEX and adding that much to TUHYX. (junk.)
    14% of the portfolio is in single stocks. That's in taxable.
    56.03% is in stock funds.
    26.4% in bond funds.

    PRWCX holds some bonds; it's a "balanced" fund.
    3.57% in "cash" and "other."

    So, then: 70.03% in stocks, both singles and funds.

    How do I manage them?
    Giggle. Badly. I always take a slice out of the IRA in January; I try to figure out how to do that with the least amount of harm. I don't want to cut myself off at the knees in terms of future growth.

    I am drawn to the Zurich Axioms. Others here don't like them and find them to be internally self-contradictory. But I think the Axioms make sense. Not all of them apply equally, and I dare say are not INTENDED to fit every situation. The Axioms strike me as a bunch of tools to be employed intuitively, if you know what I mean. It's not charts and statistics--- a.k.a. sadistics. A listing of them all is somewhere in the archives here at MFO.
    https://harriman.house/books/the-zurich-axioms-harriman-classics/


  • beebee
    edited December 2023
    @Crash
    Worthy of it’s own thread… the long version
    Zurich_axioms.pdf

    The short list:
    the-zurich-axioms.pdf
  • Crash said:

    Sven said:

    @Crash said, I'm already at 61 stocks, 33 bonds.
    Stock funds, right? How do you manage them? I am trying to considerate to less than 20 stock and bond funds/ETFs.
    Just today, I rearranged the deck chairs, pulling about $7,500 from PRNEX and adding that much to TUHYX. (junk.)
    14% of the portfolio is in single stocks. That's in taxable.
    56.03% is in stock funds.
    26.4% in bond funds.

    PRWCX holds some bonds; it's a "balanced" fund.
    3.57% in "cash" and "other."

    So, then: 70.03% in stocks, both singles and funds.

    How do I manage them?
    Giggle. Badly. I always take a slice out of the IRA in January; I try to figure out how to do that with the least amount of harm. I don't want to cut myself off at the knees in terms of future growth.


    I think he thought you meant you have 61 stocks/stock funds, and 33 bonds/bond funds….didn't look at it as a percentage

  • edited December 2023
    Graust said:

    I think he thought you meant you have 61 stocks/stock funds, and 33 bonds/bond funds….didn't look at it as a percentage.

    +1 Yup / Crash is speaking in percentages.

    I’d hate to be tracking 61 stocks (or 61 anything else). I went from 20 holdings a year ago down to about 12 today. (3 of those are individual stocks.) Always tempted to consolidate even further. I’ve found that with fewer holdings (represented by higher dollar amounts) I trade a lot less. Probably because small / tactical trades don’t “move the needle” much.
  • edited December 2023
    @crash and @hank, thanks for the clarification. Tactical moves does require larger % to make meaningful impact on the overall portfolio. Large move for us was to exit (most) bonds in late 2021 to cash equivalent as inflation became evident. 50/10/40 stock/bond/cash work out okay.

    Since The summer we moved the opposite direction and stopped buying CDs and T bills. Think the sweet spot are those in intermediate term range, 5-7 years. Small bet on long bonds net over 10% as 10 treasury yield dropped to below10%. Other high yield bonds are doing very well, many have netted double digit total returns. Going forward there are more opportunities in bonds as the FED apparently had reached the pivot point. When and if the rate cut comes, bonds will do well in 2024.

    In the meantime we will maintain a healthy % in stocks ( to combat inflation) but wait for “fat pitches” as stocks are not cheap.
  • edited December 2023
    @Sven - It was @Graust who helped clarify. I simply echoed his words - and than rambled on.:)
  • bee said:

    @Crash
    Worthy of it’s own thread… the long version
    Zurich_axioms.pdf

    The short list:
    the-zurich-axioms.pdf

    @bee you're a star!!! Thank you.
  • +1 Yup / Crash is speaking in percentages.
    TRUTH. :)
  • edited December 2023
    Sven said:

    @crash and @hank, thanks for the clarification. Tactical moves does require larger % to make meaningful impact on the overall portfolio. Large move for us was to exit (most) bonds in late 2021. 50/10/40 stock/bond/cash work out okay.we will maintain a healthy % in stocks ( to combat inflation) but wait for “fat pitches” as stocks are not cheap.

    Truth. But for single-stocks, I never bother with the well-known, high-flying names which get all the publicity. I call them a "pre-crowded trade." Low P/E is vital for me. I look at Analyst ratings, Technical Strength (14 days.) And I avoid equities with too many "Shorts" attached. I see the SP500 is meeting resistance today, trying to break through the all-time high closing. (Still before 10:00 a.m. here. Markets close at 11:00.)
  • I have been trading a big % since 2000 of at least 20% until retirement.
    Since retirement in 2018 and only 2-3 funds (they are not at equal %), every trade is at least 30%, and most are at 40-50%. Changes under 10% have minimal effect, and under 5% are meaningless.
  • FD1000 said:

    Changes under 10% have minimal effect, and under 5% are meaningless.

    That's my approach to investing/allocations as well. For me, generally anything under 10% is either a starter position, placeholder, or a speculative thing -- I don't expect anything under 10% to move the needle much either way unless it's levered (which I don't use anyway).
  • edited December 2023
    That’s where I’ve landed after years of “over analyzing” / “over allocating”. Run a 10-part portfolio @10% each. Various cash holdings constitute 10%. Another part consists of 3 individual stocks. The other 8 are single funds (OEMF, CEF, ETF).

    Recently pitched a 10% weighted aggressive bond fund & replaced it with an investment grade short term fund. Had I @rforno’s money, a move like that might have sent “ripples” through the markets!
  • I don't know if I would sleep well with 10>% in a fund. At one time that may have occurred. Only T bills & notes in that 10% or higher range as of late.
    Happy New Year to All, Derf
    P.S. @hank
    How did you make
    out with Draft Kings.
    Last I saw up 74% on the year !
  • edited December 2023
    Derf said:

    I don't know if I would sleep well with 10>% in a fund. At one time that may have occurred. Only T bills & notes in that 10% or higher range as of late.
    Happy New Year to All, Derf
    P.S. @hank
    How did you make
    out with Draft Kings.
    Last I saw up 74% on the year !

    @Derf. As I’ve remarked before, the last (DKNG) buy was at around $10 early in the year and I dumped it for a $3 - $4 p/s gain in only a few weeks. (Never could stand success.) Current price: $35

    I have no desire to own any gaming stock - especially this one. Have commented elsewhere on the extent these buzzards now go to steal from lure-in unsuspecting lower income folks and empty their pockets (with assorted bells & whistles under the guise of “gaming”) . They’ve expanded far beyond being a simple way to put a $5 bet on your favorite team. Hell - I now believe this type of predatory practice should be outlawed.

    It’s your money @Derf - But 10% in a single fund does not strike me as outrageous. Of course it depends on which fund. From the early 70s until mid 90s I was 100% in a good diversified global equity fund from Templeton (later Franklin/Templeton). In the early going when you’re DCA ‘ng in it’s probably an OK approach.

  • @hank " Hell - I now believe this type of predatory practice should be outlawed." I agree 100%. Unfortunately this baiting was going on before DK started doing it.
  • edited December 2023
    @Derf - To be clear, sometime this spring I announced a decision to no longer name stocks or funds I own. I’ve generally held to that principle, except on rare occasion to acknowledge ownership of a fund should it come under discussion in a thread I’m participating in. Since the earlier (January ‘23) references you alluded to concerning to DKNG proceeded that decision, it was reasonable of you to ask about it.

    Sometime this summer (I could look up the date) I stopped making small speculative bets on funds or stocks and consolidated everything into the 10/10 approach mentioned earlier in this thread. (Perhaps age had something to do with this.) So the days of speculating on DKNG or anything near as exciting are over. All the stocks I currently own might be termed “consumers staples” or “equity conglomerates” - about as non-exciting as you can get. And I’ve never identified them - nor will I.
  • edited December 2023
    Ahh, the age-old difference in opinion on how many positions are ideal in a portfolio. Many go for the perceived (index like?) comfort of volume and others can be decisive and have less holdings. Personally, I do think having many or "toe hold" positions can lead to more in-and-out decisions and therefore reduced return. I, admittedly and begrudgingly, tend to go both ways. I feel very comfortable with a few balanced funds making up the bulk of my portfolio. On the other hand, do I need 3 SC funds and 3 LC's? No. But I can be indecisive at times. If I can exist with ~15 funds, I'm feeling pretty good about myself.
  • edited December 2023
    MikeM said:

    Ahh, the age-old difference in opinion on how many positions are ideal in a portfolio. Many go for the perceived (index like?) comfort of volume and others can be decisive and have less holdings. Personally, I do think having many or "toe hold" positions can lead to more in-and-out decisions and therefore reduced return. I, admittedly and begrudgingly, tend to go both ways. I feel very comfortable with a few balanced funds making up the bulk of my portfolio. On the other hand, do I need 3 SC funds and 3 LC's? No. But I can be undeceived at times. If I can exist with ~15 funds, I'm feeling pretty good about myself.

    I don’t think it’s about “making more” or how many is the “best number”. Might be if someone trades too much as @MikeM says. I just think it’s a lot easier to hold a few large equally weighted positions. (Obviously stocks would need to be in smaller amounts). I got tired of the hassle and associated tracking / record keeping / trading a large inventory requires. As for specific funds, I have opportunities today I never dreamed of while largely parked at TRP. So it hasn’t been hard at all settling on a few I think I understand well and am willing to sink 10% into.

    It’s never “set in cement”. If you have 10% in a somewhat aggressive fund that’s done well for a while - maybe shift the 10% into a similar but more conservative fund to protect the gains. Conversely, if some area of investments (equities, commodities, bonds) falls sharply, you might want to shift that 10% into a more aggressive holding to take advantage of lower valuations.

    No. I don’t believe there’s any “right” number of funds. A lot of ways to skin a cat!
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