Dear dtconroe, I do hope that you will reconsider your decision to go. In fact I would like to ask you a question which is very important for me personally. On January 9 you said: "For me, I would not touch IOFIX with a 10 foot pole, but there are many others who believe this is the next great multisector bond oef."
Can you tell us more exactly why you would not touch IOFIX with a 10 foot pole? The fund behaves amazingly well, but maybe you see something that is hidden from many of us? I invest in it for several years already, and I could not identify immediate signs to worry. Do you have some reason to believe e.g. that its stability is not the result of the special kind of investments they make but a result of Ponzi scheme? You said: "I have chosen to only use VCFAX and PIMIX". But I was under impression that PIMIX was doing well in the beginning because of investing in mortgage-backed securities, just like IOFIX, and now PIMIX cannot do it as well as they once did because of the enormous size of the fund, while its more nimble brothers at PIMCO like PDI or PCI continue to invest predominantly in mortgage-backed securities? I am asking your opinion not to debate, but to learn from you, because I am a novice in bond investments, so it is a very practical issue for me.

@Tarwheel, you are correct, M* puts PTTFX in the Intermediate Core-Plus category but I would call it MS(Multi Sector) light.
The best risk/reward category over the last several years is securitized.
M* says that PTTFX has over 50% in it and it's the biggest category.
VCFAX has about 90% in securitized...JMUTX 49%...PUCZX 32%...IOFIX 90+%.
Portfolio Vis (link) shows that VCFAX,JMUTX,PUCZX have better performance, SD, Sharpe, Sortino.

Let's look at RPSIX PRSNX PTIAX and compare them to several other Multi sector funds in my list such as VCFAX,JMUTX,PUCZX,IOFIX
Looking at PV (link)
You can see below that VCFAX,JMUTX,PUCZX,IOFIX are better RPSIX PRSNX PTIAX The last 2 columns are Sharpe +Sortino.
See this link (link)

“I can make 20-30+%“
Funny thing about quoting percentages is that seem higher than they appear to be.
Say if a bond fund returns 3%, a 30% increase amounts to less than 1% increase in return.
Is the effort worth it for a tiny 1% increase in return?
Are other assets classes (stocks) or asset allocations (stock to bond ratios) better to target?

@BigTom
Nope, it's not only 1% increase it's much more than that.
Several examples:
1) PIMIX vs BND (link)=in the last 10 years PIMIX made 5% more annually with higher SD(but still low) and much better Sharpe+Sortino
2) IOFIX vs BND (link)=IOFIX made almost 8% more annually with similar SD and much better Sharpe+Sortino.
3) A relative used to invest in MM, I told him to use SEMPX instead after I explained it to him. In 5 years SEMPX made 4.4 while VG VMMXX made 1.2%, this is more than 3% annually.
4) I told another relative to use HY Munis instead of some of his MM/CD and he made over 7% in the last 3 years instead of 1.5-2%.
This tread intention is to discuss only open-ended bond funds.
Not stocks vs Bonds
Not CEFs vs bonds
Not asset allocation
Not how anybody invests currently and in the past.
Not about retirement or accumulation phase.
If you like to discuss the above non-related topics please start a new thread.
It's a pretty simple concept, you post a bond fund and we discuss it generally and compare it to other funds.
So, do you have a bond fund in mind you like to discuss?

From the article "One of the most attractive sources of income right now is tax-free municipal bonds."
The author also forgot to mention funds such as SEMMX,PIMIX,IOFIX,PUCZX that pay over 4.5%.

Below is what I posted on 1/31/2020
Performance..1 month...YTD as of 1/31/2020
• Multi
• PDIIX……1.5.....
• PUCZX….1.1..…
• JMUTX....1.15....
• JMSIX.....0.8……. (JGIAX)
• Multi(high % securitized)
• PIMIX.....0.8….
• EIXIX…..1.1….
• VCFAX...1.3...
• IOFIX.....1.8....
• SEMMX...1.3.... (ST duration, 3 year SD less than 1, over 30% IG bonds-good cash sub)
• DHEIX….0.6…..4.85 (ST duration, 3 year SD less than 1, over 80% IG bonds-good cash sub)
• HY Munis
• PHMIX…..2.1.....
• NHMAX....2.7.....
• MMHAX....2.0.…..
• OPTAX.....2.4....
• ORNAX….2.6……..
• GHYAX......2.1......
• GWMEX….2.6…... (IG Munis but BBB+A rating)
• NVHAX……1.7……. (ST duration HY Munis-lower SD than the above)
• Inter Term CORe/CORE PLUS
• USIBX.......2.1.....
• BCOIX......1.9…....
• PINCX……2.1..…….
• BND….......2.0…......
• Bank Loans/Floating rate
• EIFAX.......0.5.....
• Uncontrain/Nontrad
• IISIX..........0.7....
• PUTIX......-0.1….
• PAJZX……0.7….
• HY +EM
• HYG.........-0.5.....
• PHIYX.......0.....
• ZEOIX……0.3…….(ST HY, 3 year SD less than 1, good as cash sub)
• FNMIX……1.4…….
• Corporate
• PIGIX….…2.5..….
• Preferred
• PFINX…...1.5……
• OTHER
• FXAIX.…..0..…(SP500)
• PCI………0.9... (CEF)
Rating several good choices
Multisector+NonTrad-
SD less than 1=SEMMX,ANFIX,ANGLX,DHEIX…
SD less than 1.5=IISIX,TSIIX…
SD less than 2=VCFIX,/VCFAX,JMUIX/JMUTX,PIMIX…
SD less than 2.7=IOFIX,PUCZX,DPFNX,JMSIX
HY Muni-…
SD less than 2=NVHIX,WHYIX,ISHYX…
SD less than 3=NHMRX/NHMAX,GHYIX/GHYAX,MMHIX/MMHAX
Core+Core plus-…
SD less than 1.5=FIJEX…
SD less than 3=PINCX,GTO
Observations:
2020 OPENED WITH A BANG FOR BOND OEFs. Rates were down and many funds did nicely.
Multi- Another good month and especially for IOFIX. SEMMX did great for its low SD.
HY Munis continues to be a great category with 2+% for a month.
Inter term – did fantastic because rates were down
Bank loans – are lagging
Uncontrain/Nontrad-are lagging and PUTIX fell off the cliff
HY+EM – HYG lost money and EM did pretty well.
Corp – This category was on fire because of the rate cut.
===========================
Generic Views
My 2 favorite categories are Multi+HY Munis.
HY Munis-The funds that I usually invest in are NHMAX,OPTAX,ORNAX.
The Multi funds I’m interested are IOFIX,EIXIX,VCFAX,PIMIX,JMUTX,JMSIX/JGIAX,PUCZX but IOFIX is usually the leader. SEMMX did very well for a very low SD fund.
Investors who don't mind and understand the risk, may use SEMMX,DHEIX,ZEOIX as a "cash sub" LT, see 3 year SD less than 1(link). In taxable, you can use ST duration Munis. NVHAX duration is about 4 which is between ST to LT. I remember so many posts in 01/2019 about MM/CD that were paying just 2-2.5%.
============================
Any question or subject about bond mutual funds (not CEFs) is welcome in this thread. I will try and answer all of them.

@Old_Skeet I turn 70 this month and am about 15 years into retirement having taken advantage of a downsizing "early out" opportunity in 2005. My stock weighting has varied between about 40% and 60% during that time.
My portfolio percentages will probably be in the neighborhood of 55% stocks, 40% bonds and 5% Other after the new cash arrives. Most of that new cash will likely be used to increase existing positions in VWINX, WFLEX, IOFIX, ZEOIX, and SEMPX. (I'm thinking about adding to RPHYX too given its recently improving performance.) My tendency to overweight stocks (vs my current 50/50 default mix) may well persist until 10 year treasury rates move meaningfully higher...maybe into the 3 to 4% range will get my attention (of course something else may come to convince me to abandon my current overweight to stocks!). My present plan is to keep the default mix at 50/50 at least until I turn 80 unless my health status declines significantly.
I have incorporated a sub-portfolio within my ongoing mutual fund portfolio over the past year and a half. Its settled out at 22.5% of the total portfolio (counting the new cash). Its 1/2 income oriented and 1/2 "income with growth" oriented and is populated with individual dividend paying stocks (3%+ dividends), REITS, CEFs, BDCs, and LPs. The individual holding sizes are bit sized enough that it could be used to engage in some "spiffing" although my current plan is to invest for income and long term capital gains.....Anyway, your comments and perspectives are appreciated.

I agree with this article. Rates now are at one of the lowest levels ever seen. You can still make 4-5% in bonds using Multisector+Non Trad funds which I posted about at Bond mutual funds analysis
Several funds to consider are
SD lower than1=SEMMX,ANFIX,ANGLX
SD lower than 1.5=IISIX,TSIIX
SD lower than 2=VCFIX,/VCFAX,JMUIX/JMUTX,PIMIX
SD lower than 2.7=IOFIX,PUCZX,DPFNX,JMSIX

None of the rules will make you wealthy. The best way for an average person it to start saving earlier and keep saving monthly thru 401K(or similar) for years. The more you save the better you will be. Basically, if you start early to meet your employer matching amount, then increase the amount by half of your raise annually to at least 15% you will be in a great shape.
#1: Put It All In One Fund-for most investors it's a good idea and why most 401K have target funds
#2: Create Your Own Yield-most average investors can use great Multisector+NonTrad bond funds for higher yield (examples: PIMIX,VCFIX,SEMMX,IOFIX,JMUTX,JMSIX). For advanced investors who don't mind the high volatility PCI,PDI

#3: Don’t Buy A Long-Term Care Policy-correct
#4: Cut Your Portfolio Management Costs-correct
#5: Pay Off Your Mortgage Rapidly-absolutely not. Do the math and decide based on the numbers. In 2012, at the lowest mortgage rates, I took home equity loan for 5 years at 1.99% interest with zero fees. We didn't need it but it was a no-brainer to know that I cam make much more than 2% in the next 5 years.
#6: Moonlight-no if you can. Select a profession that pays well
Basically, the article is average at best. It missed the most important rule of saving early and at least 10-15% for years. It failed on what bond funds to buy (not all bonds are treasuries) and CD,MM are not a good option. The rest was the easy part.

As a generic rule, I would invest in MBS before I would invest in HY. MBS/Securitized is where great managers have great risk/reward + you get higher distributions which is what many retirees want/need. The following funds have a high % in Securitized DHEIX,PIMIX,VCFAX,IISIX,SEMMX,IOFIX,EIXIX.
I also have a hard time finding data on RPHIX on their site such as duration and breakdown of bond categories and rating. I don't trust M* numbers.

(link)
See quotes below:
Recession risks, which had been elevated during the middle part of 2019, have diminished in recent months...As a consequence, we are now more confident in our baseline forecast that the current window of weakness for global growth will give way to a moderate recovery during 2020.
We will tend to favor U.S. duration over global alternatives, given the relative value and potential for capital gains in U.S. Treasuries and the scope for further Fed easing in the event of a weaker-than-expected macro outcome. While we are broadly neutral on the U.S. dollar versus other G10 currencies, we generally will favor long yen positions in accounts where currency exposure is appropriate
In addition, in asset allocation portfolios, we will look to be overweight large cap over small cap equities.
We favor both U.S. agency mortgage exposures and non-agency exposures. We believe agency mortgage-backed securities (MBS) offer attractive valuation, reasonable carry, and an attractive liquidity profile in comparison with other spread assets. We see non-agency mortgages as offering relatively attractive valuation along with a more defensive source of credit and carry and better market technicals than generic corporate credit exposure. We will also look to have select commercial MBS (CMBS) exposures. U.K. residential MBS (RMBS) also looks attractive on a relative valuation basis.
In currency strategy, we look to be overweight a basket of emerging market currencies versus the U.S. dollar and the euro.
We will tend to favor curve steepening positions in the U.S. and in other countries. U.S. Treasury Inflation-Protected Securities (TIPS) look attractive on a valuation basis
we continue to expect real U.S. GDP growth to slow to a 1.5% to 2.0% range in 2020, from an estimated 2.3% pace in 2019...We look for a modest U.S. reacceleration in the second half of 2020. China’s commitments in the Phase 1 trade deal to purchase $200 billion of additional U.S. exports over the next two years should also support growth in the second half of 2020.
We see euro area growth at around 1.0% in 2020. On balance, we see core inflation remaining close to 1.0%.
The U.K. is set to formally leave the E.U. at the end of January...we expect U.K. GDP growth of 0.75% to 1.25% in 2020,
Japan: We expect GDP growth to slow to a 0.25% to 0.75% range in 2020 from an estimated 0.9% this year...Inflation is expected to remain low in a 0.25% to 0.75% range
China: We see GDP growth slowing into a 5.0% to 6.0% range in 2020 from an estimated 6.1% in 2019.

End of Quote.
======================
What the above means to me?
1) Load on securitized bonds which I have been doing for years (PIMIX,VCFIX,IOFIX,EIXIX. For cash sub use SEMMX)
2) Continue to use US LC as my main equity position which I have been doing for years already
3) If you want to invest in equities abroad go with EM.
4) I will not use TIPS and I don't believe that curve steepening will affect my Multisector funds that much.

Comparing VFINX to DODFX was an error, it should be VFINX vs DODGX. The link and numbers are based on DODGX. SP500 beat DODGX.
I also agree that low fees are important and if I have to select funds for the next 20 years I would only select index funds. FXAIX ER(expense ratio)=0.015 and Fidelity also introduced zero ER. This means DODGX ER is still 0.5% higher.
The only exception is VWIAX which is a great fund for retirees with ER=0.16%.
==================
DODGX doesn't only own "value" companies. They own growth companies too. If you can't beat the index claim your style is a bit different.
I always believed in investing in the index for US LC(The Bogle way). If I want to beat it I would use QQQ, after all, for several decades now high tech is where you find a lot of growth and where the biggest ones take so much more. I also prefer QQQ (for my explore part) because over 50% of the revenues come from abroad.
==================
Risk isn't volatility. That subject had been discussed for decades but Risk doesn't have an accurate definition. Volatility, Sharpe, Sortino, Martin, Ulcer, Up/Down ratio and others can help you find better funds. Sure, they are not perfect or a guarantee but you got to start somewhere. I have been using them now for about 20 years. I have used SGENX, FAIRX, OAKBX most years in 2000-2010. As I got older and prepare for my retirement I have used PIMIX and PRWCX several years since 2010.
I also found that low SD + higher performance is a quick search with a high correlation for finding great funds and great funds also have better Martin, Sharpe, Sortino. They all work together most times.
MFO also uses the above for finding better funds.
==================
As a retiree bond funds are more important to me. Stocks are "easy" just use an index. Bonds is where great managers can make more money with better risk attributes. You will never find bond funds like PIMIX,PIGIX and IOFIX at D&C and you definitely will not find much higher distributions which are very important to most retirees.
It also works better for covering expenses and rebalancing.
When stocks go up a retiree should use stocks for expenses when stocks go down use bonds for expenses and rebalancing should be a part of it.
My style was always to invest in my best ideas in order to try and get better results if you own 3 funds in every category chances are you won't.

SD=volatility is just the first thing I look for. I pay a lot of attention to Sharpe, Sortino, Max Draw and more.
Let's look again at D&B compared to "my" funds.
I already proved that A 5 years analysis(link) shows that DODFX has over 40% more volatility while performance is equal to 3.7% while HFQIX peformance is equal to 5.1% with much lower volatility. Another great way is to look at Sharpe+Sortino and HFQIX numbers are much better.
For 15 years DODFX vs VFINX (link) shows that VFINX has better performance, SD, Sharpe, Sortino.
If you changed it to 10 years (link) The results are similar, VFINX has better SD, Sortino and Sharpe in the last 10 years. This is after 2008-09 debacle.

DODBX vs PRWCX (link) same as above. PRWCX is a much better fund.
If you change it to 10 years starting 12/2009 PRWCX still have better performance, SD, Sharpe, Sortino. This is after 2008-09 debacle.
Most investors have a choice of what to use in a taxable account. I would use US stocks indexes and munis because of their lower taxes. I use only Hy Muni funds in my taxable account.
I don't use many funds. I typically use up to 7 but mostly 5 funds. Research shows that the more funds you have the more you regress to the mean and you will make more trades and more trades lead to lower returns.
Cash flow? I generate cash flow primary from bond funds, after all, funds like PIMIX, IOFIX, PUCZX, VCFIX are paying over 4.5% which should be enough for most retirees. If you want more I would use PCI (CEF) with distr > 8% and much better risk/reward than the SP500. HY Munis funds ORNAX,NHMAX pay over 4% with Fed tax-free. I also can and do sell shares if I need to but I do it on my term when I need and based on market conditions.
As I said earlier, D&C is a good shop but I was always able to find better risk/reward funds than D&C.

Mark "Not a fan of Mutual funds, no out performance"
FD I'm a huge fan of Mutual funds. Buying stocks can be rewarding or spinning your wheels. Over the years my stock funds had better risk/reward than the market and my bond funds beat the indexes by a lot.
Buffett recommends most people including his wife to use the SP500 index. FXAIX expense is extremely low at 0.015% and if you really want cheaper than that go for FZROX with zero expense.
If you like single stocks then go for it. If I had to select single stocks I would definitely go for the biggest high tech companies. Over 4 decades they lead the stock market.
===================================
Mark: "Investment style is "anti-fragile" ala Taleb. Majority % of investments in safe, very conservative investments (T-Bills, 5 year CDs), smaller % in DERI Dominion Notes and ~15-20% in handful of stocks mentioned above."
FD: I'm definitely not in Taleb camp of a black swan. Many investors that believed in a black swan stayed out of the markets since 2008 while stocks+bonds had one of the best periods in the last 10 years.
As a conservative investor, I never used CD and t-bills and very unlikely I will use them in the future since I can find better mutual funds like PIMIX,IOFIX and HY munis ORNAX,NHMAX,OPTAX which made me so much more. Just a year ago so many posters were falling all over themselves when they found MM and CD that paid 2.5% while my bond mutual funds made me easily over 10%.
Finally, I wish you good luck with your endeavor.

"Gary1952">What is too conservative? I have a basic AA of 50/50. But the 50% bond OEFs have 50% (25% overall) in low duration/lower yielding "safer" type funds. The other 50% (25% overall) is in higher yielding multi/non-traditional funds. I own no "ballast" funds such as core/core plus OEFs. Is this too conservative or not conservative enough? My goal is to target 3-4% yearly income from divs, CDs and growth.
My market correlation for 10 years is .35%. The max draw down is -.42% for the bond OEFs.
I know it is my judgment but I am curious what others think.
Gary, In a more specific response to your post, you and I use very similar kinds of funds, although I break my funds down into funds for my taxable account, and funds for my tax exempt (IRA) account. In my taxable account if use more of the "safer" bond oefs, but with a wide variation if diversity. So, for example, DHEAX is the short term bond fund I use, but I consider it more risky than DBLSX and less risky than FIJEX. There is an argument that you could use just one of these short term bond funds, or you could use more than one of these funds for more diversification. I use 4 very different nontraditional bond oefs in my taxable account because they are all "conservative" for me, but they don't always perform the same in a given set of market conditions. PUTIX is my most risky nontraditional bond oef, MWCIX is my least risky nontraditional bond oef. I also own a municipal bond oef which is a HY MUNI (AAHMX) and this is one of the least risky HY Munis you can own. I used it to replace BTMIX, which is a very good short term investment grade muni bond oef, but I felt I was ready to move up in risk. I have considered NVHAX, but it is more risky than AAHMX, and NHHAX has some history of significant peak to trough losses and a larger "worst 3 month performance period" than AAHMX. I am still considering adding NVHAX to my portfolio in 2020, but if I do, I will probably make it much smaller position than AAHMX. In the past I have used MMHAX as longer duration and more risky bond oef, but I am not inclined to use it right now because I am not comfortable with its risk level. I am very clear that many investors will use much more risky bond oefs in their taxable account because there are a lot of pundits thinking they will sail through 2020 in the same way they sailed through 2019--that may fit their conservative criteria, but not mine.
When it comes to my IRA account, I use several multisector bond oefs that are more risky than what I will use in my taxable account. I rank order multisector bond oefs in roughly the following low to higher risk: ANGIX, VCFAX, PIMIX, PTIAX, JMUTX, JMSIX, PUCZX, IOFIX. All investors can make an argument for these funds being "conservative" based on the criteria they use. For me, I have chosen to only use VCFAX and PIMIX, but I don't dismiss the rationale from others to use some of these other funds. For me, I would not touch IOFIX with a 10 foot pole, but there are many others who believe this is the next great multisector bond oef.
At any rate, it appears to me that you are using relatively conservative bond oefs, but you could very easily change your criteria for other bond oefs to fit your investing roles you have defined for each fund.

several comments:
1) I believe and can prove it that in most cases you want to own stock funds + bond funds because bond funds is where you find managers who can add performance + better risk attributes.
2) Stocks are simpler, you must own US LC and VTI/VOO is just a great, very cheap and will beat most managed fund longer term. This index also gets over 40% of its revenues from abroad
3) For about 20 years now my specialty has been to find the exceptions
PRWCX-this is the only allocation fund I would use. The managers use a flexible mandate + use several categories + making the right decisions for many years and why performance is in the top 1-3% for 1-3-5-10-15 years.
DSEEX-First, managers invest in global bonds then, they look at 11 US stock sectors and select 5 undervalued sectors, then take 4 sectors out of 5 with the best momentum. They don't invest directly in the index but in a derivative that is similar to the index.
Basically, you get 200% investments for the price of 100%. You get real bonds + derivative of stock indexes.
To make even simpler, let's assume they invest in just one sector SPY and assume the bond portion makes 3-4% annually. It means, the performance will be SPY + 3-4% - (paying for derivatives).
USMV/SPLV-low volatility funds work. PV(link) shows that you get similar performance with better risk attributes
4) For over 40 years high tech is where you will find the best opportunities and growth and now they own the world and this is the biggest category in the SP5500. So, why not just own QQQ which BTW gets over 50% of its revenue from abroad.
5) If you want to diversify abroad I don't like generic indexes. I like to make a bet that EM is where I want to be but not in Europe.
6) For bond funds, I have many great options and I mentioned many of them at my thread (https://www.mutualfundobserver.com/discuss/discussion/54803/bond-mutual-funds-analysis#latest)
7) Don't collect funds, the max funds you own should be under 10 and your best ideas.
Putting it all together and I can see VOO,PRWCX,DSEEX,QQQ + IISIX,VCFIX,IOFIX,PUCZX (you may need higher rated bond funds as ballast). Depending on goals I can make adjustments.

The decision to remain on the sidelines- (with a large stash of dry powder in short bond funds and Cd's ) or to dip into some of the more conservative suggestion.
Re: charles review of IOFIX- it shows a 0.17 correlation to SPY - but it is only 4 years old. How would this do in a recession ? And Charles Commented that the strategy had a limited shelf life. Looking for other suggestions to put some cash to work. Currently greater than 60% bonds and cash. I have both 401k and taxable cash to invest. Many thanks for your commentary... it is enlightening.

If you want to learn more about IOFIX and generally about this category, you can read this excellent presentation.

There have been extensive discussions on the M* discussion boards talking about the unique risk of this fund. Here is one excerpt that summarizes the risk: "* IOFIX = almost entirely pre-crisis legacy subprime non-agencies, a chunk of it in small, infrequently traded lots that they've claimed they've had a unique pipeline to acquire, which they seem to be saying in the annual report is running dry ... (at least in the amounts they'd need to keep topping up holdings as AUM climbs?)."
IOFIX focuses only Residential Mortgage Backed Securities, which are "pre-crisis legacy subprime non-agencies" which are running dry while IOFIX grows larger, and many other mortgage oriented funds are still trying to tap into. These are very risky mortgages from a fund that charges one of the higher ERs in the bond oef categories. If you want to be a trader and try to jump on the bandwagon of one narrowly focused fund, do so at your own risk, but do it with your eyes wide open!

Please use this (link) which is basically a search of IOFIX ar MFO and read lots of previous info.