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Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
  • For those with high cash levels, when will you start to buy?
    I ended up with a lot of cash when I consolidated retirement accounts recently. I'm gradually moving that cash into emerging market equities and bonds. I also like ag funds, mainly MOO. Bought some LatAm (ILF). For the rest I'm adding mainly to existing positions in Matthews funds. The only individual stock I'm accumulating is Nestle. Don't really care if we haven't hit bottom; still have plenty of dry powder.
  • Emerging-Markets Dividend Funds & Anyone know much about this ETF - DEM?
    Maurice,
    I know I'm probably asking too much right now :)
    I think I'm just feeling very frustrated when I look at my 401K and that it's only earned about 1% annually for the past decade. It's made me really want to take control of my investments and at the very least do the best I can with it, whatever returns I may get. When I started working and obtaining a 401K, and really all I had learned was, put as much as you can in your 401K, IRAs, etc. Then like I said, I literally only earned about 1% over the past 10 years. I never did much with my 401K, never really understood the investments, just knew that money came out of my paycheck every 2 weeks and that it should grow over time. But what I more recently realized is I think I'm one of probably millions of other American workers with 401Ks that don't know anything about investing. I'm part of the post labor-union era I'll call it, who also out of high-school and college, never was given real financial advice regarding retirement or investing. My parents for example both have pensions and health-care taking care of them in their retirement. I asked my father recently if he had a Roth IRA, and he said no, don't know much about those. It's also funny, I just recently picked up a Dave Ramsey book that someone had given me 5-8 years ago, and I caught this section where he talked about don't invest in bonds and investments that only earn 4-8%, and instead investing in a mutual fund (nothing specific, just said mutual fund) that you can expect to earn 12% annually over the next 30 years, like that was normal. And I just chuckled. And out of my curiosity I looked up historical returns for the S & P 500 and I was blown away by what I saw. Other than recently, only in 1974 and pre-1940 did the 10Yr. Avg Return Rate fall below 2%.
    http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewarticle/articleid/2803347
    And really the period between 1979 until 2007 long-term returns were really good, especially 1983 - 2001. So, I think for me, all of this has been a real a wake up call. That I can't just rely on the markets to earn the money I hope to have come retirement without thinking about it.
    I have to say though, doing all this research the past few months I feel like has become a new hobby for me. Even though I haven't put all my money to work yet to where I want it, I've found it to be very fascinating. And just watching the markets going nuts lately is actually another lesson I'm learning to try to stay calm :). It's hard to not be distracted by it.
    So yea, whether I can actually achieve the high return with low risk is something I'll just shoot for, but at the very least I'd like to keep learning about funds with really good mangers who will make much better decisions than myself could ever make. And that is really all I'm trying to do. Buying into funds with managers who if they are taking risks, know when to move money out of equities when needed and to put back into when the markets are ready to rebound. It really boils down to trust. Finding those funds that help me sleep better at night. And based on what many of you have said, it sounds like MAPIX fits that mold I'm looking for from an Emerging Markets point of view.
    I just want to say to this site and to everyone that posts here, I really appreciate the input and the knowledge sharing. It's helped me immensely in trying to get a grip on my investments and I am grateful for it.
    By the way, I'm curious. What kind of investors are the majority of people who post/read here and are there any others like me, who don't deal or work in finance and are currently working and just trying to make better choices for their retirement portfolio?
  • Emerging-Markets Dividend Funds & Anyone know much about this ETF - DEM?
    Jardine Matheson is one of a number of similar conglomerates in Asia, some of which have been around for many decades (such as Jardine.) Swire and Hutchison Whampoa are other examples. Swire is interesting (in that it owns Cathay Pacific and a Coca-Cola Bottler that covers a good portion of Asia and some of the US). Genting Berhad is also of interest, with its resort properties in Singapore and soon the US. Given its holdings though, Genting is particularly tied to the swings of local economies.
    Jardine has a pretty fascinating history and (I thought) appealing mixture of businesses - there is both Jardine and Jardine Strategic, and Jardine Strategic owns a 20% stake in Rothschilds Continuation Holdings, which is the financial holding company of the Rothschilds.
    "Until 2008, the only non-family interest was Jardine Matheson, a hong which holds the other 20% of Rothschild Continuation Holdings. The stake was acquired in 2005 from Royal & Sun Alliance through the Jardine Strategic subsidiary, which specializes in leveraging stakes to protect family owners.[7] Jardines acted as Rothschilds' China agent from 1838 onwards" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N_M_Rothschild_&_Sons)
    longer Bloomberg article on the relationship between the two companies -
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=apHai5xmbq9s
    Jardine Strategic owns the majority of Jardine Matheson and Jardine Strategic is part of Jardine Matheson. As noted, "It (Strategic) in effect owns its own corporate parent, enabling the Keswick family to control the group without providing a majority of the capital. This expertise in protecting family owners was shared in 2005 when it took a 20% stake in Rothschild Continuation Holdings, a major merchant bank." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jardine_Strategic_Holdings)
    Jardine chair Sir Henry Keswick is also listed as a director of Rothschilds Continuation Holdings. Jardines is really a dynasty - I think - in the old-fashioned sense, which I found appealing.
    The two biggest parts of Jardine are majority-owned subsidiary Dairy Farm (a massive group of retail operations, ranging from 7-11's to hypermarkets to restaurants to a few IKEA stores and Hong Kong Land (50% owned by Jardine). There's also Mandarin Oriental hotels, among other subsidiaries. If one digs in the reports, Strategic also holds some small investments in other companies, such as Tata Power (to use an example from last I looked, things may have changed.) Jardine Pacific is another interesting part, containing all non-listed businesses, such as various operations at Hong Kong airport.
    Additionally, the whole thing rests on whether one believes in the continued rise of Asia over the next decade or two (and as I've said, I believe that, although I do believe there will be problems along the way.) If not, then something like Jardine would be of no interest.
    Again, this is a stock, so it is certainly a risk and one *MUST DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH*. I wanted to own an EM stock or two for the long-term (5-10 years+) and Jardine was the most appealing that I found.
    In terms of Asian-centric funds that would be comfortable holdings for the long-term, the search - I think - starts and ends w/Matthews Asian Growth/Income (MACSX) and Matthews Asia Dividend (MAPIX.) I'd recommend the great majority of people - especially more conservative investors or those nearing retirement - interested in EM stick with funds instead of specific stocks, and particularly the Matthews funds listed above.
    The Pimco EM Multi-Asset fund has not released holdings yet, but my guess is that it looks like an EM-focused version of fund-of-funds (and some other stuff) Pimco Global Multi-Asset.
  • Picking up on Scott"s Comment re: "gathering a diversified portfolio of real assets."
    Not sure which T Rowe funds hold the fund, but the fund has a mix of real estate stocks and natural resources stocks. I'd rather suggest for those closer to retirement to hold permanent portfolio, which has both as a portion of assets, as well as swiss francs, gold and silver. That would be a more "low key" real assets fund.
  • Picking up on Scott"s Comment re: "gathering a diversified portfolio of real assets."
    Reply to @steppinrazor:
    Hey Step,
    Initially the phone was transferred numerous times since it was actually hard for the TRP phone jockeys to find any information on it. They we more and more curious themselves about the fund and finally found a "secret fund expert" who provided me and the "phone specialists" with a conference call where by I was able to ask a few questions after I was asked,
    "So, why are you interested in this fund in the first place?"
    To make a long story longer the expert pointed out that the fund was an institutional only fund and that individuals could not invest directly in it.
    It does seem to be part of the Lifecycle retirement funds as David had mentioned.
    bee
  • Picking up on Scott"s Comment re: "gathering a diversified portfolio of real assets."
    I think the whole thing becomes trying to "think outside the box" and in the manner that investing doesn't have to just be the traditional "bonds and stocks", "hard assets" don't have to be just commodities or commodity producers. I like Brookfield Infrastructure, which is a collection of varied assets around the globe - everything from rail in Australia to power distribution in various countries to ports to timber, plus it pays about 5.7% and the parent company is the giant Brookfield Asset Management. I really like MLPs, but don't want to be purely in energy-related names; there are some other non-energy ones that are worth looking at, such as the Fertilizer ones. Several MLPs were actually doing quite well throughout much of yesterday's 500+ point decline.
    I do think that REITs represent a hard asset choice, but I think it really is tough to be as specific as I want to be about it. I like prime real estate in high-end locations that has a high replacement cost. Again, I look at Brookfield and Brookfield Office Properties (BPO). Hard-to-replace properties in ultra-prime locations. I like logistics, but I don't know of many examples in this country - in Singapore, there's the Mapletree Logistics Trust (I believe there's a pink sheet version, but it barely ever trades.) I DO NOT LIKE RETAIL. Even if things really come back, I think retail is overbuilt in this country and I think technology may lead to further moves away from B & M retailers or specific sectors (Circuit City is gone and Best Buy is still not performing well) may go away. Again, I do not like retail REITs and do not want anything to do with them. The only unique little piece of a retail REIT that I would like are the prime outlets (outlet malls that are a collection of more mid-to-high end stores) managed by Simon Property Group - I think these are unique and represent appealing values. However, I wouldn't want anything to do with SPG as a whole at these levels.
    I do think that apartment REITs will continue to do well if things continue at this rate/along this path. Furthermore, many REITs have run quite a bit (although I'm sure they've come down recently.) REIT Preferreds may also be an option. The hotel REITs are sorta interesting in theory, but a number of them really got demolished in 2008 because they completely mistimed the market. New hotel REIT Pebblebrook (PEB) is interesting because it's largely about buying high-end properties at distressed rates, but if this is another 2008, it doesn't matter, it's just going to get obliterated (it owns a great selection of hotels, though, and on its website, there are specific factsheets for each property, in terms of what discount it was bought at, etc.)
    Principal Global Dividend (PGDCX) holds some in MLPs and REITs.
    Pimco Commodity RR invests in commodity derivatives, but actively manages the collateral (TIPS, but also other things.)
    Pimco Commodity RR is a good position for a commodity derivatives fund. The fund that I particularly like, Highbridge Dynamic Commodity (HDCCX) is unfortunately now closed (and I wish I wouldn't have sold it entirely.) Currently, I have PCRRX, DBA, CFD and a little RYLFX.
    Additionally, as I noted in the other thread, I do like Dupont because of its exposure to agriculture, as well as food ingredients/enzymes. However, as I mentioned, if this is another 2008, you don't want to be in it. I particularly like the Flavors section - companies like Givaudan (GVDNY.PK), Senisent (SXT) and part of Dupont (DD), as well as a few others, such as Novozymes. Sensient is particularly interesting - they had a good quarter and are trading at a reasonable valuation. However, like anything else - DO YOUR RESEARCH. This is an area that I think people don't think about and I think it'll be increasingly important in upcoming years because of science trying to find ways to create packaged food without using so much salt and other discoveries - and the "science of food" (and also household products to some degree) is what you're really seeing these companies be involved in and I think that will be of increasing importance in the next decade (and likely behind Dupont's purchase of Danisco.) I just don't think that many people think about how the flavor of their ice cream was created or how the color of their drink was made, but these companies do well.
    I do like Archer Daniels Midland at these levels for a little bit, as it's just not done very well and I think it's not going anywhere.
    I do like more unusual commodity plays, including both Noble and Glencore. I picked up Glencore (a litttleee bit) in the last week or so, and as I noted in the other thread, I find it a fascinating company (and the scale of it is pretty remarkable), but it does have a controversial past. Noble I owned last year and sold early this year or so - at these levels (about $1.25) I think I may look at it again. However, both are volatile in the extreme, so are purely for a little bit of speculation. Same with Sprott Resource (SCPZF.PK.) Noble, which is an Asian-based commodity trading house, has a map of assets on its website, which is a particularly impressive collection of ports and other facilities around the globe. Same with Glencore, which has a pretty massive amount of owned/leased farmland. Click on the points on the map on the link below to see Noble's assets.
    http://www.thisisnoble.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=277&Itemid=325&lang=en
    In terms of healthcare, I like(d) Teva, but sold at $49 not that long ago and I'm stunned to see it's now $10 less. It's just not doing particularly well and I think I'll keep to funds regarding health care.
    %'s and particular allocations are going to be different based on risk tolerance and distance to retirement.
    I think this is the big question: you aren't going to earn anything on your money for the next couple of years. Inflation is not going to be zero (and I definitely think it will be higher than others think it will be.) Growth is certainly not going to be high. So, what do you do in that environment.
  • Picking up on Scott"s Comment re: "gathering a diversified portfolio of real assets."
    I have reservations chasing any singular theme...the most recent being gold/silver. I understand its place in a diversified portfolio but my reason for starting this thread was to formulate ideas on creating a well diversified portfolio of "real assets". What would these be and in what percentage would one hold them long term.
    Real Assets to me include:
    Precious Metals...Gold, Silver, Platinum, Palladium
    Natural Resources/ Commodities...Food, Fertilizers, Fiber, Metals, Minerals, Energy (Oil, NG, coal, etc,)
    REITs / MLP / Utilities...REITS, Argi-businesses, Poles, Pipes, dams, Towers, Cables, Wires
    Maybe also,
    Companies that manufacture "things"...verses provide services...
    Drugs & Medical Device/Equipment
    Precious Metals:
    rono has done a great job over the years of educating me on the importance of gold and silver well beyond the ordinary choices. Hopefully he will be kind enough to continue. Personally, my exposure to these metals come in the form of owning gold/silver within PRPFX = Permanent Portfolio. I also have PM mining exposure using USAGX = USAA Preciuos Metals and Mining and VGPMX = Vanguard Precious Metals. Also, I would assume I have smaller amounts of exposure of PM in diversified funds such as VWO = Vanguard Emerging Markets since much of the mining operations are located in these emerging countries. My goal is to maintain a 10% weighting in precious metals.
    Natural Resources / Commodities:
    Scott and others have been very helpful in providing commentary on these choices. I must admit I need to better understand all of the choices in this space as well as its place in my portfolio. I have exposure to this space through PCRDX = PIMCO Commodity Real Return Strategy D class. My understanding is that this fund purchases derivatives as well as preferred stock. Derivatives are buying futures in an asset verses owning the real asset so I am interested in clarifying in my mind the PCRDX's place in the commodities portion of my portfolio. Individual commodity stocks seem riskier than a collection of the stocks in a mutual fund or ETF. I also have a investments in:
    VIS = Vanguard Industrial Materials
    VDE = Vanguard Energy
    Maybe Scott or someone else could provide a primer on this space. I would very much appreciate it. Again, 10% weighting in this area is my goal.
    REITs / MLP / Utilities:
    Here I own VNQ = Vanguard REIT, GASFX = FBR Gas Utilities, VOX = Telecom, MATFX = Mathews Asia Tech, PRMTX = Media and Tech, CSRSX = Cohen & Steers Realty Shares
    This space seems plagued by bad news both inside and outside. A big driver of our economy was real estate development. It provides employment, consumer spending, manufacturing, as well as bank financing. Our balance sheet recession is slow to unwind and full of volatility (bad news) and real estate react directly to these dynamics. I wouldn't call this investment space dead money but it feels like it is on life support at times. Low interest rates should soak up some housing inventory but a home is no longer the "fake" wealth multiplier it once was. I am looking at REITS that manage rental property, retirement communities as investments that provide present income and future growth. Another 10% here as well
    Here's and interesting chart on the risk/reward of holding differing allocations of real assets on the last decade:
    http://www.principalfunds.com/investor/promo/dra/effect.html?WT.mc_id=dra_micro_effects
    That's enough for now...your comments very much appreciated.
    bee
  • No QE3, rates low for extended period through infinity (read: mid-2013)
    Howdy scott,
    I had to run the roads today with other work; but had plans of perhaps going into a few other funds....likely energy stuff; but when hearing of the market moves in the last few hours decided to keep the money horses in the corral. I am sure energy related likely went up today, and the near term bottom may have already been touched. But, I am not playing with this market when it is having these big mood swings.
    AND, the infinity thing with low Fed rates; that should take me through my/our retirement years at this house..........:):):)
    No surprise with this move, eh??? Not like there is a powerhouse economy on the horizon.
    Lastly, for now; is to consider moving back into more precious metals again; in spite of the hugh run.
    OK, take care. I have a 5:30 appt and must get leaving.
    Regards,
    Catch
  • Fine book by Daniel Solin
    Back in May I received great feedback here as I grappled with whether I needed to retain a financial adviser to help manage my retirement portfolio. I opted to keep it simple and stay with Vanguard, switching to three index funds and rollover my 401K to an IRA. Among the several good suggestions was one from MJG to read Daniel Solin's "The Smartest Investment Book You'll Ever Read." I just finished it and it is fabulous! It is an easy and entertaining read which makes a powerful case for limiting a portfolio to index funds only. The historical data is overwhelming that precious few funds beat the market over the long haul. Two closing thoughts: I wish Solin would update the book since it published in 2006. It could be useful to have his data and insights covering the turmoil and volatility of the last five years. And I'd suggest David add the Solin book to his best books list elsewhere on the MFO board. Thanks again, MJG. Next, Burton Malkiel's "A Random Walk Down Wall Street."
  • Our Funds Boat, week, -.05%, YTD, +5.31%, + XRAY, 7-16-11, TURD PILE QUALITY
    Reply to @Maurice: Awhile back Dan Fuss came fourth that he mis-read the market and the shareholders suffered in 2008. The fund has since bounced back strongly. Now the fund has significant exposure to energy producing countries including Canada and Australia. One outstanding risk I see is are longer end duration on many of the holdings.
    I also agree that 50% holding in high yield is too risky in a retirement portfolio. After all high yield bonds correlate strongly to equities comparing to treasury or investment quality bonds. In this low yield environment it is difficult to obtain sufficient income from dividend alone.
  • Is It Wisdom or Madness of the Crowds?
    Hi Guys,
    Well is it the wisdom or the madness of the crowds? From a literary world perspective that would depend upon whether you are reading James Surwiecki’s “The Wisdom of the Crowds” or Charles MacKay’s “Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of the Crowds”. Probably both are representative of reality, partially dependent on history, on international tensions, on exogenous events, on endogenous happenings, and on personal perceptions, both real and imaginary.
    We are surely susceptible to manias and bubbles, to fear and greed that shape our decision making. Since that’s the case, a reasonable extension of that observation is that the financial marketplace has no prospect of coming close to rational behavior. Maybe, maybe not.
    We have all heard the axiom that “None of us are as smart as all of us”. That truism has been demonstrated many times over when expert panels with diverse backgrounds are assembled, and isolated from each other to retain freedom to think and act independently, to grapple with complex problems and issues that defy recognizable solutions. As a general outcome, the group’s average solution is superior to any individual’s preferred approach. I personally have participated on such panels and have shared the group’s success.
    There is a very important distinction between a group’s opinion, and an individual’s proposal. The group can be more than the sum of its parts.
    In his book “More Than We Know”, Michael Mauboussin explores this dilemma with a syllogism as follows:
    “Humans are irrational
    Markets are made up of humans
    Markets are irrational.”
    Given the validity of the two opening assertions, the third statement must decisively ensue. Even if the two assertions were absolute truths, which is not necessarily so since humans are rational some of the time and market decisions are sometimes completed with computer-driven tactics and trades, the concluding statement is not infallible.
    Mauboussin summarizes his point with the succinct claim that “Markets can still be rational when investors are individually irrational”.
    If there is sufficient independent analyses, goals, timeframes, and perspective interpretations, the diversity of the final judgments tend to cancel each other out. The market consensus can be far more accurate and perceptive than any single guru’s viewpoint. The herd gets it right until it becomes too uniform in its assessments and stampedes in the wealth destroying direction.
    Mauboussin concludes his brief article with the observation that “The key to successful contrarian investing is focus on the folly of the many, not the few.”
    One implementation difficulty of a contrarian’s style is to identify a reliable measure of the crowds average position. One candidate gauge is the American Association of Individual Investors (AAII) Sentiment Indicator. Tens of thousands of small investors volunteer in this statistically impressive survey. And it is updated weekly in the AAII website at:
    http://www.aaii.com/sentimentsurvey
    You may recall that I included the AAII Sentiment Indicator as one component in my six-factor Retirement Equity Assessment Model (REAM). The six components of the model are: (1) Fiscal, (2) Momentum, (3) Valuation, (4) Microeconomics, (5) Liquidity, and (6) Sentiment. I mostly included the AAII sentiment signal because of its exhaustive nature, its frequent updates, and its easy access.
    However, how accurate is its opinions with regard to future market movements? Can it reliably indicate market future returns for the upcoming year? The AAII Sentiment Indicator survey has been conducted for many years; it has a track record. So it can be stress tested against future market returns like the S&P 500. That has been done.
    Let’s examine its historical record as a forecasting predictor. Here are two excellent summary articles prepared by organizational AAII members themselves. I have provided Links to both of them. The first reference is a 2010 update of an original assessment published in 2004; the second reference is to the original study authored by Wayne Thorp. The 2010 update has imbedded the 2004 study in its entirety. I recommend you read the original paper because the plots are nicely integrated within the text so the reading is more easily completed.
    http://www.aaii.com/journal/sentimentsurveyarticle
    http://www.aaii.com/files/sentimentCIfeature.pdf
    These references document the usefulness of the AAII Sentiment Indicator as a contrarian’s signal. Enjoy. Wayne Thorp concluded that “If you run with the herd, you might get trampled.”
    I posted on this topic now because the AAII Sentiment Indicator has recently migrated into dangerous waters. I assess its current status as in my cautionary yellow zone. Although the current AAII Bullish sentiment is slightly above its historic average, it has not yet become sufficiently bullish to warrant an action.
    Thorp’s paper suggests that a bullish signal of at least one standard deviation above its historic average needs to be registered before it is actionable as a contrarian’s sell signal. If you subscribe to that interpretation, then the AAII bullish sentiment must reach a level of about 50 % to deliver a contrarian’s sell signal. In preparation, the red flag has been unsheathed, but is not yet waving.
    I do NOT dogmatically follow these signals; I use them in a guidance sense, and then only incrementally. Any mechanical rule should not replace common sense and should be deployed judiciously.
    Most market wizards use a far more complex array of market signals when establishing their forecasts on market direction and portfolio asset allocations. James Stack, founder and chief designer of his InvesTech methods, has publicly acknowledged that he uses over 200 common and specially constructed signal generators. Each man chooses his own poison or his own poison concoction if he’s a more sophisticated market student (results will still be uncertain).
    Because of my long standing distrust of all mechanical investment schemes, my incremental approach even after making an investment decision, and the marginal penetration of my AAII Sentiment Indicator, I have NOT taken any action with regard to my current portfolio asset allocations. That Indicator does bear careful monitoring because of its trending.
    I wish you all continuing investment prosperity. But current market conditions demand constant vigilance. I am much worried over the entire globe’s financial status. Prompted by these concerns, I’m rereading Charles Kindleberger’s book “Manias, Panics, and Crashes”. It is not an easy task since it assumes the reader is familiar with distant and minor market crises.
    However, Kindleberger’s classic does capture the significant characteristics of these disastrous historical events and parallels with current market conditions. It warns of the dangers of foreign contagion; it warns of inflation encouraged by excessive money supply growth; it warns of housing and equity bubbles that are promoted by unrestricted credit exposure. All these cautionary warnings seem applicable today; we are forewarned. So take care by taking prudent and controlled risks.
    Best Regards.
  • Global Dividend Fund?
    Hi Kaspa,
    The best fund out there for your needs is the institutional class of the Thornburg Investment Income Builder (TIBIX). This class is available for reasonable minimums in retirement accounts at Fidelity ($2K minimum, $75 initial TF), Wellstrade ($50 minimum, NTF if you qualify for 100 free trades/yr. by having $25K invested with them), and Thinkorswim ($2K or less, 3 free trades/month until TDA completely gobbles them up).
    Other high-yielding global funds to consider, with more fixed income exposure, would be JNBSX and PGDIX, which are available at certain brokers for reasonable minimums.
    Kevin
  • Our Funds Boat, week, -.05%, YTD, +5.31%, + XRAY, 7-16-11, TURD PILE QUALITY
    Catch you write: "I feel the holdings are fairly conservative; although a very large batch of HY/HI income is very subject to credit quality/risk and equity market moves; but generally at a slower face slap, which would hopefully buy some time for an unload. I must ask, your knowing that we have about a 45% exposure to HY/HI bonds as to whether our holdings, in your eyes; are more than conservative? I would appreciate your viewpoint."
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    My viewpoint is that it's very hard to assess ths risk profile of anyone's holdings, yours or mine, but will attempt to shine a little light. One approach is to look at worst and best years for a given asset class. The J.P. Morgan Global High Yield Index was down 26.8% in 2008 and than up 58.9% in 2009. In hindsight, for the fella who bailed at the bottom this asset class was very risky. For the stalwart who hung on another year, not so risky.
    http://berylconsulting.com/de/content/beryl-credit-pulse-high-yield-corporates-march-2010
    Terms like "conservative" "risky" "safe" have different meanings to different folk. Bnath in a recent thread considered OAKBX too risky, even years from retirement. But there's also risk in cash equivalents and short term bonds because they won't keep pace with inflation. For help we might look to some of the fund literature. I'm most familiar with Price and believe they generally do a good job communicating. Spectrum Income, RPSIX, appeals to folks that want a diversified income portfolio without taking a lot of risk. I'd link the bar graph for this fund but can't get link to work. Anyway, Price places Spectrum Income about midway between "low risk and "moderate" on a risk spectrum.
    Spectrum Income's last annual report, December 30, 2010 lists the funds in which it invests. At the time of publication, High Yield Bond comprised 19.6%, Emerging Markets Bond 7.9%, Equity and Income Fund (stocks) 13.8%. All 3 totaled a bit over 41%. Remaining 50% or so was in investment grade bond funds or cash.
    This glimpse into one fund and how its managers try to assess risk may be of help.
    Sorry, can't get links to the risk assessment bar or fund report to work. Gremlins.
    hank
  • Our Funds Boat, week, -.05%, YTD, +5.31%, + XRAY, 7-16-11, TURD PILE QUALITY
    Reply to @hank:
    Howdy hank, Thank you for your gracious comment; and you are to be commended, too; for your efforts.
    I'll do the "you wrote" and >>>>> for a reply.
    "Catch, in the past you have billed as a "conservative/capital preservation" approach.
    >>>>>I feel the holdings are fairly conservative; although a very large batch of HY/HI income is very subject to credit quality/risk and equity market moves; but generally at a slower face slap, which would hopefully buy some time for an unload.
    I must ask, your knowing that we have about a 45% exposure to HY/HI bonds as to whether our holdings, in your eyes; are more than conservative? I would appreciate your viewpoint.
    "The "turd quality" reference makes me wonder if your goals and methodology have changed?
    >>>>>Our goals or methods have not changed; and the "turd quality" is related more to the chat about the U.S. debt and the hugh amount of Treasury issues that are floating around. However, there are many more issues of debt around the globe that have a much worse odor than here, and regardless of the debt talks and the circus in D.C.; if there is safe hiding to take place from market conditions, I feel U.S. Treasury issues would still have priority for many small and large investors.
    "I post to provide hope to those conservative fund investors who like myself lag your sterling performance this year. They should not be dismayed if they fall short.
    >>>>>Ah, the beauty part of FA and now MFO. To allow all of us to swish around the thoughts that are written here. With enough time the smallest phrase or just one work may be of great value in the future as one adds to knowledge, which may in turn become intuitive knowledge for investing decisions. Not unlike having tried 50 restaurants, 3 or 4 times each and soon enough one may have an intuitive/memory list of the proper future choices.
    "Up against two long time board favorites which fall into the conservative/balanced/go anywhere category, you lag only fractionally: OAKBX is at 5.48% and PRWCX is at 5.42%. Neither likely holds near 15% cash as you do which may account for the difference. T. Rowe Price is known as one of the smartest for allocation decisions. You easily trump all of their retirement funds. Here's a few with YTD performance:
    TRRIX Retirement Income 4.13
    TRRFX Retirement 2005 4.41
    TRRGX Retirment 2015 4.63
    TRRBX Retirement 2020 4.68
    TRRCX Retirement 2030 4.86
    TRRDX Retirement 2040 4.82
    Some additional T Rowe Price funds for comparison:
    RPIBX International Bond 5.48
    PRHYX High Yield Fund 5.01
    PRULX Long Term Treasury 4.28
    PRWBX Short Term Bond 1.46
    RPSIX Spectrum Income 4.05
    >>>>>When I moved monies in late January of this year, I noted to my wife that I felt that whatever was not placed into truly active investments at the time would be "PIMCO'd"; meaning the cash not used would be placed into our easiest access to a non-cash acct at Fido and that would have been FINPX. TIPS, a very common pseudo cash place for Pimco funds. Our cash to use for other funds has always been parked in some type of fairly stable bond fund. Well, obviously; while watching the markets this spring and early summer, this did not happen; and I regret the waiting. Add to the list of investment missteps, eh??? Now, we watch and wait on D.C. for the bigger plan...:)
    "You must find following 26 funds challenging. I typically hold 12-15, not counting money market, and that seems frustratingly high. BTW, what are the provisions for owning TEGBX load free? I ask because our old work place plan was with Templeton/Franklin Templeton and we paid a onerous 4%. I commend you for these outstanding returns. My own pale in comparison being consistent with my benchmark, TRRIX. (Actually I'm lagging them by 0.10%, but, than again, they are the professionals.) Take care.
    >>>>>Following the funds is not too bad. I have a "pretend" portfolio set at Google and view it each evening looking for trends or common moves. I also watch several ETF's to give a feel for sector movements. Example: If the HY/HI funds/sectors really start to look ill; then I would likely start to reduce holdings of all similar funds.
    TEGBX is a choice in a 403B acct set up through an insurance company (ARGH !)...not our preference, but there is no fixing that. I checked again today to assure my brain cells and the load is waived and the total internal fee of the fund to us is .79%. 'Course these type of funds via insurance companies are for their use to the customer; but are pretty much twins to the product offered to the outside/retail investor and the returns have very small variances.
    And hats off to you for your efforts. We all may have a 5% or 25% year....tricky boating so far.
    Take care of you and yours....and, hey; go jump in the lake, eh? Stay cool !
    Catch
  • Our Funds Boat, week, -.05%, YTD, +5.31%, + XRAY, 7-16-11, TURD PILE QUALITY
    Catch, your 5.31% YTD for what in the past you have billed as a "conservative/capital preservation" approach is truly amazing. The "turd quality" reference makes me wonder if your goals and methodology have changed? I post to provide hope to those conservative fund investors who like myself lag your sterling performance this year. They should not be dismayed if they fall short.
    Up against two long time board favorites which fall into the conservative/balanced/go anywhere category, you lag only fractionally: OAKBX is at 5.48% and PRWCX is at 5.42%. Neither likely holds near 15% cash as you do which may account for the difference. T. Rowe Price is known as one of the smartest for allocation decisions. You easily trump all of their retirement funds. Here's a few with YTD performance:
    TRRIX Retirement Income 4.13
    TRRFX Retirement 2005 4.41
    TRRGX Retirment 2015 4.63
    TRRBX Retirement 2020 4.68
    TRRCX Retirement 2030 4.86
    TRRDX Retirement 2040 4.82
    Some additional T Rowe Price funds for comparison:
    RPIBX International Bond 5.48
    PRHYX High Yield Fund 5.01
    PRULX Long Term Treasury 4.28
    PRWBX Short Term Bond 1.46
    RPSIX Spectrum Income 4.05
    You must find following 26 funds challenging. I typically hold 12-15, not counting money market, and that seems frustratingly high. BTW, what are the provisions for owning TEGBX load free? I ask because our old work place plan was with Templeton/Franklin Templeton and we paid a onerous 4%. I commend you for these outstanding returns. My own pale in comparison being consistent with my benchmark, TRRIX. (Actually I'm lagging them by 0.10%, but, than again, they are the professionals.) Take care.
  • CXO: REITs a Proxy for Real Estate?
    Hi Investor,
    Thank you for your thoughts in this area of investing. We have a nibble in FRIFX, too; but also missed the big boat. We do have access to CSRSX in another retirement acct; of which, we should have plunked some money. Cohen/Steers have been at the real estate fund game for a long time and know the market.
    Well, heck; we get stuck in one place or another and miss some boats, eh?
    When we moved some accts monies around Jan 31 of this year, among other lower risk choices was some of the monies into FINPX as a psuedo cash parking place....well, we sure missed a large part of that boat leaving the dock. :):):)
    Thank you again and back to the chores before the sun gets too high in the sky and melts me away.
    Regards,
    Catch
  • Bonds v. Stocks
    Hi Skipper,
    You stated that your goal is a capital preservation portfolio. Your original all-equity portfolio surely does not satisfy that objective, as you painfully learned in 2008. The portfolio was constructed for maximum likely returns without controlling for risk. For example, the US equity market generates positive returns about 70 % of the time on an annual basis.
    That’s acceptable for a 30-year old with a few decades before retirement, but is probably not a wise plan for a retiree or a near-retiree. By diversifying into US equity, International equity, and bond mutual funds you have made your portfolio more risk insensitive. That’s a closer approximation to satisfy your investment goal. Congratulations for that decision.
    However, as Milton Friedman observed “There are no free lunches”. There is a tradeoff between risk and reward. In general, to reduce the risk of a market downturn, it is necessary to accept a lower likely annual return. But adroit asset allocation is as close to a free lunch as is possible in the investment universe.
    By allocating resources among various asset classes, it is possible to approximately maintain the annual returns of an all-equity US portfolio while simultaneously substantially reducing the risky aspects of a portfolio (its volatility). This is usually accomplished by using asset classes that are not perfectly correlated with each other.
    Correlation is statistically measured by something called a correlation coefficient. For two investments, correlation coefficients run a spectrum from minus One to plus One. A correlation coefficient of plus One means that the two investments move Up and Down in perfect synch; a correlation coefficient of minus One means that the two investments are perfectly out of synch with one generating positive returns while the other produces negative results. A correlation coefficient of Zero means that the two investments behave in a random, uncoordinated manner relative to each other.
    When asset allocation is fully exploited, it is possible to maintain the annual return of an all equity portfolio at about one-half of the volatility. In 2008, instead of suffering a 40 % decline, a well-diversified portfolio might have reduced losses to one-half or one-third that level. Not perfect, but a major improvement.
    Correlation coefficients are dynamic and change over time. Historically, bonds have a correlation coefficient that varies from 0.2 to 0.4 relative to US equities. Foreign equities further diversify a portfolio because its correlation relative to US stocks is typically in the 0.5 to 0.8 range. Gold and other hard assets often have correlation coefficients that are neutral or slightly negative to US equity holdings.
    Your 3-holding group goes a long way to achieving an efficient portfolio, but the addition of other asset classes would improve its risk control.
    Since you are using passively managed products and are paying an advisor, you must be a relative novice at the investment game. Nothing wrong with that; we all were at that place at some time in our investment careers. You’ll learn by reading investment books and by visiting websites.
    To get you started in the book arena, I suggest you get a copy of Professor Burton Malkiel’s introductory book “The Random Walk Guide to Investing”. It’s a breezy 184-page book that will be a useful guide at this stage in your investment development.
    To see the benefits of asset allocation on a parametric level, I suggest that you visit Paul Merriman's fine website. It offers some excellent articles and provides a table that demonstrates how portfolio returns and volatility change as a function of various percentages of bond and equity holdings. The Link follows immediately.
    http://www.merriman.com/PDFs/FineTuning.pdf
    Please visit the site. I promise that you will learn something about portfolio management and risk control.
    Please do not worry about the portfolio returns and correlations on a daily basis. If you do, you will never sleep peacefully and the portfolio is too risky for your stated purposes.
    Good luck.
    Best Wishes.
  • Bonds v. Stocks
    Thanks to all for the good feedback as usual. This is my entire retirement investment account. INVESTOR, I will chat with my Vanguard adviser about upping the International index piece though the overseas craziness every day makes me nervous. CATCH, it is the VBTLX Vanguard Total Bond Mkt Index (Admiral shares). I'm pretty sure it essentially mimicks VBMFX. SVEN, the adviser suggested these three funds but I have access to all Vang funds for the portfolio; just a way to keep it reasonably simple for now. I know Wellesley Income has high ratings for 3 and 5 years, so that remains a consideration. I'm not paying for their financial planner advisory service....yet. I think it is .50 percent for assets under management. I'm cheap, but I know that is about as low as it gets for this level of service. Cheers , --Skipper
  • NARFX Mr. Snowball?
    Reply to @VintageFreak:
    If BPLSX interests you, I have heard relatively recent reports that it remains available in Thinkorswim retirement accounts for $1K minimum.
    Kevin