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No surprise---again. M* fails to update

edited March 2015 in Fund Discussions
DLFNX. I own it. Dropped into the tank on Friday, losing -.06 cents/share. But M* still shows it up by a penny (on Thursday.) I am writing this at noon on SATURDAY.) OK, 1-2-3: BRONX CHEER, everyone!
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Comments

  • Let's get this documented, so M* can see it once someone brings their attention to it:

    image
  • I just sent off an email to M* to alert them of the above issue.
  • @rjb112

    I had a fund too that has failed to update. And, that is LBNDX.

    Here is its M* link for easily viewing.

    Old_Skeet
  • It was down friday morning for me until about 11am or so, on my phone anyway.
  • Old_Skeet said:

    @rjb112

    I had a fund too that has failed to update. And, that is LBNDX.

    Old_Skeet

    Let's get this documented:

    image

  • edited March 2015
    I called M* this morning at 312-424-4288 and made note to them about this on-going issue. In addition, I am linking a thread I started back in November about this issue for those that might be seeking reference to it.

    http://www.mutualfundobserver.com/discuss/discussion/16870/morningstar-s-portfolio-manager-price-updating-concern#latest

    Old_Skeet


  • TedTed
    edited March 2015
    @Old_Skeet: Since repeated E-Mails & phone calls to M* have failed to resolve the problem, what is needed is to embarrass M* by use of a third party. I suggest you call MutualFund Wire.Com, at 1-212-331-8995 and see if they can get M* off their ass
    Regards,
    Ted
  • edited March 2015
    @Ted,

    Hi Ted, I think I'll let Mutual Fund Wire discover this themselves.

    I am a gratis user and I don't want my link severed. It is one thing to point our short comings and then something else to have a bon'fire, so to speak, with these short comings.

    Old_Skeet
  • It's good of you, Ted, to include that particular phone number. I'll pass, hoping someone else might pick it up and run with it. I don't do so well when dealing with Customer Rage And Aggravation Inducers. They tend to dissemble and play semantics-games. DESIGNED to make anyone see red. Before one's next breath, you deduce that they are not really capable of fixing anything. Indeed, the one at the other end of the line might well be nothing but a bot. When you deal with The Ministry of Truth you're bound to get caught-up.;)
    ".....holding unspoken beliefs or doubts that oppose or question the ruling party." For example, actually expecting that an item which needs attention will actually be remedied. Eh?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtcrime
  • @Old_Skeet & Crash: Lead, follow, or get out of the way. Since your not willing to call any financial media to put the spotlight on M*, I can assume we won't have to deal with anymore M* update threads. I don't use M* for fund quotes, I use either MarketeWatch or Yahoo. Case closed !
    Regards,
    Ted
  • The only way M* will listen is to affect their bottom line.

    I'm always surprised that no other entity has attempted to compete with them. Lipper has a good service, but it is pricey.
  • edited March 2015
    @Ted,

    What's wrong with you calling them?

    After all, it was your idea to advance this matter to a broader audience. Why?

    It seems to me they know they have issues and putting this to wider reading audience serves no purpose. Perhaps you may like to win at the demise of others but not me.

    I am for leaving it on the board. So, if you wish it advanced ... Have at it!

    Old_Skeet
  • Follow-up: you may recall the dismay in general here at MFO following my altercation (I mean "conversation") with Matthews. So, no. Someone more capable can take the next step.:)
  • Hi All,

    My name is Lizzie, and I work in client service at Morningstar. I wanted to provide the share an explanation from our Product Manager for Morningstar.com regarding why we occasionally see delayed pricing updates on Morningstar.com.

    On a typical day we start receiving open-end fund data at 5:15pm CST with the majority of fund NAVs in by 7pm. Some fund companies are slower to provide all fund data, or data on individual funds. Generally 75% of fund companies have directly given us their updated NAVs by 7pm. By 9:15, we’ve heard from 90% of fund companies, and by midnight 99%. If the data deviates greatly from what we’ve seen in the past, we embargo the update until a data analyst can review it. This is usually completed shortly after midnight CST. We are reviewing with our data team ways to minimized this disruption, either by expedited reviews or tighter QA flags.

    Our internal targets are to have 75% of NAVs and prices updated by 6pm CST, 85% by 7pm and 95% by 8pm. Quality of data is pursued over speed. That said, in the last year we have improved our backend systems dramatically resulting in NAVs being published to the site around two hours quicker than in the past. There will always be exceptions from fund companies that haven’t provided updated NAVs or those that we’re giving a closer review, and whenever possible we’re working to minimize those delays.

    Thanks,
    Lizzie
  • edited March 2015
    Dear Lizzie,

    Thanks very much for your post.

    One of the themes that we have observed for quite some time now is that when a fund price has not been updated by Morningstar, it has been updated by Yahoo Finance.

    I appreciate your explanation that you are dependent on the fund company to supply you with the latest price update:

    "Some fund companies are slower to provide all fund data, or data on individual funds. Generally 75% of fund companies have directly given us their updated NAVs by 7pm. By 9:15, we’ve heard from 90% of fund companies, and by midnight 99%."

    It would appear that fund companies must be providing Yahoo Finance their updated price more rapidly than they supply it to Morningstar.

    What would be the explanation for this?

    Or is Yahoo Finance simply processing and posting the information more rapidly than Morningstar is?

    Another issue is that we have many examples where on a Saturday, Morningstar is still showing the Thursday price for some funds. Yet Yahoo Finance is showing the updated Friday's closing price.
    What would be the explanation for that?

    One would think that fund companies would be supplying updated prices to multiple sources simultaneously.

    thanks very much Lizzie


    p.s. it's not only Yahoo Finance that does a much better job with price updates than Morningstar. For example, if one goes onto brokerage sites, such as Schwab, Fidelity, TD Ameritrade, etc, one can also find much more timely price updates than Morningstar is able to provide.

    What is the reason for that? How are they able to accomplish what Morningstar is having such a difficult time with?

    thank you very much
  • Why do you want "reasons"?, If you don't like Morningstar services use someone else....Sounds like a bunch of bored mice...
    Use Yahoo....and get a life...please
  • @TPA: Couldn't agree more !!
    Regards,
    Ted
  • Now Tampabay and Ted, we had a guest (Morningstar) on our celebrated MFO website, and it was appropriate to thank them for posting and dialogue a bit with them, rather than just ignore them. After all, a Morningstar representative did take the time and show enough interest to join the website and post.

  • @rjb112: I could care less !
    Regards,
    Ted
  • It has been noted that there are a number of websites like TRowe Price that use M* for quotes get updated in a timely matter while M* itself does not.
  • I have found in business your going to have a certain % of customers/prospects and nobodies that will complain no matter what you do, for a representative of Morningstar to take her time dealing with these "types" is over and above the call of duty...displays the class of the organization...MY Morningstar...
  • edited March 2015
    Tampabay said:

    I have found in business your going to have a certain % of customers/prospects and nobodies that will complain no matter what you do, for a representative of Morningstar to take her time dealing with these "types" is over and above the call of duty...displays the class of the organization...MY Morningstar...

    TB,

    Nope.

    For a representative of Morningstar to take her time with these "types" is NOT over and above the call of duty. It should show you the problems that they perceive they have, and in fact do have.

    It's called damage control.

    Mona



  • Damage control is necessary when there is Damage Done...Explain to me how anyone gets "damaged" while waiting a few minutes/ hours for the BIGGEST information source in the investment world update their figures......
    ANYBODY who needs INSTANT Stock Quotes don't post on these sites believe me,
    Now move on to something of( investment) Value...ie. "get a life"
  • A fund that I track, DLFNX, did not update last Friday and went the whole weekend that way.

    TB, the way you are acting, maybe you work for M*? If you don't like the thread comments, go to another thread.
  • @rjb112: Well done, and thank you.
  • edited March 2015
    1. The M* person provided a reasonable explanation, I thought. Someone may or may not think it's a satisfactory explanation, but I thought the reasoning was at least clear and it seems like they're aware of it/working on it.

    2. I'm not sure why people seem so reliant upon M*, when there are so many other services out there. I use M* because I think some of the stock information there is quite useful when researching, but in terms of price updates, I definitely use other things. Brokerages provide a lot of this information and M* X-Ray type services, is this stuff not available when dealing with individual fund companies? I'm not bashing or anything, I'm honestly trying to understand the emphasis on M* when the info is available elsewhere.

    Additionally, as I've noted before, check your local library's website. Some libraries provide access to some aspects of M* premium for free.

  • Fidelity has a decent research page for funds. No account necessary.
  • I believe that all mutual fund companies are required to report their end of day pricing to NASDAQ by 7:00 PM EST. So if M* is getting late feeds from the fund companies themselves then perhaps M* should secure their mutual pricing feeds from NASDAQ. It is very interesting why other data providers can provide correct end of day pricing but M*, at times, does not. And, further more, at times, this stale pricing carries over through the weekend and when Monday is a holiday until Tuesday.

    Something is indeed broke at M*.
  • @ MFO Members: Mutual Fund NAV's are reported at 4:45 PM CDST, and are available at MarketWatch.Com at that time.
    Regards,
    Ted
  • and at 5:00pm what would you do with that information? Just curious? Something you can do that you can't do at open of the market the next day......or are you just bored?
    I'm in a learning mode
This discussion has been closed.