Anyone have old pages or recollections of the tenor of posts in 2008? (Fund Alarm) Fro Bob C. Dec. 16 '09
All that being said, we have a few managers/funds that we have used for what we would consider a long time. Among them are Thornburg Value and International Value, Artisan MidCap Value and Mid Cap, Diamond Hill Small Cap and Long-Short, Permanent Portfolio, Artio International, Artisan International, First Eagle Overseas, some of the Matthews funds, Oppenheimer Developing Markets, and several of U.S. Global's funds: Global Resources, World Precious Minerals, and Eastern Europe. One we have held only a few years is Ivy Asset Strategy, but we have a lot of confidence in its two top managers and expect it to be a core holding for a long time.
On the bond side, we have used Loomis for what seems like forever. Our other big holding has been Templeton Global Bond, and what a great manager it has.
But with all of this said, we don't know what tomorrow will bring. So flexibility remains a key component of our strategy. We have a whole asset class of "Alternative Strategy" for which we allocate 15-20% as a way of reducing volatility and adding low or negative correlation to portfolios. And we also have a "Tactical Sector Strategy" class that gives us a 10-15% allocation to overweight specific sectors. We hope that these two parts of our portfolios will give us a boost in good markets and a cushion in bear markets.
Robo-Advisors - Barron's Rankings, 2024 @hankTen index funds is too much 'diworstificiation' to my mind.
--- Diworsification is the process of adding investments to a portfolio in such a way that the risk-return tradeoff is worsened.
A quote from Steve Jobs (Apple) that applies to the many things to many investors attempt to chase or justify.
“A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them”
― Steve Jobs
NOTE: We've remained U.S. centered with investments since the GFC. Hell, Europe remained broken for
years after the melt. AND, if investment 'things' become bad here, they're probably worse everywhere else, globally.
Robo-Advisors - Barron's Rankings, 2024 @MikeM +1 2 3
Have followed with interest your work with Schwab’s robo over many
years. Appreciate all your comments. I’m thinking there are some actively managed allocation funds that might do quite well what robos profess to do.
I subscribe to a newsletter that publishes a “recommended portfolio” consisting of 10 index funds. (It’s currently almost 50% cash.) I don’t follow the recommendations - and can’t see any particular brilliance to the approach after about 3
years following it, except that the index funds recommended carry much lower ER’s than I pay for my actively managed funds.
Robo-Advisors - Barron's Rankings, 2024 The mandatory 12% in cash that returns about 0.2%, plus the mistimed heavy allotments to international, emerging markets and small caps since the funds inception has been a losing strategy for Schwab's Intelligent Portfolio. At one time it was 1/2 my retirement savings. I thought it would be care-free professionally managed money. After about 8 years, I finally gave up and baled on it at the end of last year. What sounded like a good idea, was not.
Just a friendly reminder for any newbie investors (8/5/2024) During the GFC we didn't sell anything, didn't buy much either other than continue to contribute to our Roth IRA's. We were mainly in PRWCX. I did jump into PRHYX when the yield was approaching 20%!! I believe it was early 2009 when I sold PRHYX after ~40% gain.
Yes. ‘07-‘09 (especially ‘08) would have been a wonderful time to be dollar-averaging in to a retirement account. I hadn’t considered that. At a younger age I’d had paid it little heed. Stay the course.
For some of us the year and a half long market crash was an unwelcome
retirement gift. I was already 10
years in. Those retirees who got caught with more risk on the table then their individual situation warranted got taken to the cleaners.
Anyone have old pages or recollections of the tenor of posts in 2008? (Fund Alarm) @Derf. Thanks for pulling up a
FA excerpt from February 25, 2009. The bear market ended just 2 weeks after that post. Yet, all sounds calm.
I really like this line …
”Your mix of ETFs should match your investment time table, your age, your level of risk acceptance, your income needs, and any other financial considerations.”That was standard
mantra for many
years in discussing investment choices. It wasn’t about making the
most money but rather about
matching investments to your own needs and risk tolerance. You don’t hear that much (or as much) anymore.
Nah, I am logged in & checking things most every day, and that's fine. But I don't fixate on inter-day performance, so at least for my mindset, it's no big deal. By contrast, I'm sure for most retail investors, they shouldn't check every day b/c they may not have the mindset/discipline/knowledge to know that 'doing nothing' often is the best course of action.
I check fund performance via M* Portfolio Manager almost daily.There is no good reason for me to do this since I seldom trade. Bad habits are sometimes difficult to break!
Same here. It’s so damn easy to tap an icon on whatever hand-held device I’m already on - and up pops everything. This habit (of looking during the day) has helped occasionally, as when some more
speculative hold enjoys a big intraday bump and I can quickly trim some off. But watching is largely a waste of time.
Were I to look only every 3 months I’d probably pull back the risk profile in advance. Add more cash / short term bonds. Carrying less risk would make it easier not to look, but would also impact performance negatively I think.
Robo-Advisors - Barron's Rankings, 2024 Schwab is at the bottom of the performance rankings YTD, 1 year (the only robo with single digit returns, more than a point behind second worst), and 5 year (tie for worst). Over three
years it did 0.2% better than the worst.
As a blind guess without checking, I suspect the cause is cash drag, especially since Vanguard has outperformed Schab recently by more than 3%, and by more than 1% over three and five
years.
Schwab ranks in the middle of the pack overall. That seems to be due to broad financial planning tools and features like
Intelligent Income (mentioned by Barron's) for managing a monthly income stream. Raw performance only counts for so much; with Barron's that's 25% of the total score.
Anyone have old pages or recollections of the tenor of posts in 2008? (Fund Alarm) As a follow-up to
@rforno’s “newbie” thread, it might be interesting to reflect on what the board looked like during 2008 - right in the middle of an eventual 17-month decline in the S&P (greater losses globally and in some domestic sectors). The period is known as
”The Global Financial Crisis” and is also sometimes referred to as
”The Great Recession”. Even money market funds had become unsafe and investors began fleeing until the government exercised extraordinary authority to backstop them.
It is easy in hindsight after these rare episodes to say: “Do nothing”, “Let it ride …” , “Just don’t look. It won’t really matter 20
years from now.” These are all intelligent responses. But is that how it really was?
Anybody recall the general tenor at Fund Alarm (predecessor to MFO) back then? And what the smart, well informed, articulate posters were generally saying? Was the general feeling one of “I’m sitting tight.”… “I’m not making any moves.”, “I’m not even looking because longer term everything will be great.”
Possibly some were reading / participating on other investment forums, or possibly some recall what their friends, family members, co-workers and / or neighbors were saying and doing.
Follow up to my Schwab discussion It may also be possible to use a
payment app with Fidelity accounts. Whether that app in turn lets you schedule transfers to a third party depends on the app. For example, according to this old (2018)
moderator post, Paypal wants you to limit transfers to only Paypal customers.
For the most part, anything you can do with a Fidelity CMA account you can do with a "regular" account. When Fidelity first introduced CMA accounts, they struck me as a marketing gimmick. They still do.
There are only three differences I'm aware of (or at least that I care about):
- The CMA account offers the option (it used to be mandatory) of sweeping cash into FDIC-insured banks instead of higher yielding MMFs.
- The CMA account provides free ATM rebates for all customers; Fidelity doesn't rebate fees for customers of "regular" accounts unless they are at the Premium ($500K) or above level or are paying for "wealth management".
- The CMA accounts can't be used for IRA accounts.
it's easy to set up such payments online between your own accounts (trick is that one name must be common to both account titles)Unless you're setting up payments from a joint account. Several
years ago when I set up transfers from a joint account to my individual taxable account Fidelity required a guarantee (or maybe just consent?) from the joint owner. I don't recall whether I also had to sign.
I asked Fidelity why they required it, especially since they were allowing me to make IRA contributions from that joint account without any fuss. Fidelity said that it was getting too many complaints from joint owners when money was transferred, even though "joint" means either owner has access to the full account. So it wanted the redundant, explicit approval from the joint owner. Except for IRA contributions because "everybody does that" or words to that effect.
Follow up to my Schwab discussion Linking accounts with different titles requires paperwork guaranteed with Medallion Signatures. I had to do this years ago when I linked my Schwab Brokerage to my daughter's JPM Chase bank a/c. It took about 2 weeks after I mailed the paperwork. Once linked, I can set up onetime or recurring payments.
On the other hand, it's easy to set up such payments online between your own accounts (trick is that one name must be common to both account titles) or via the BillPay.
One trick may be to use auto-pay for a person. But BillPay will cut a check and mail it - it won't be online transfer. Some refuse BillPay checks - insurance companies (either outright refusal or incorrect crediting), banks themselves (one time I tried to use BillPay for bank locker payment - refused).
BTW, we have a bank account in India and rules there are totally different (to begin with, we can write checks from savings account & many other differences). We can setup onetime or auto-payments online to anyone so long as we have the complete bank and personal account information. And of course, instant transfers have been possible for several years - we in the US are just starting on that.
How frequently do you trade? I don't trade my MF's. I hold them in a Roth and have for 10+ years. One recent addition has been PRCFX,
My taxable brokerage account is primarily dividend growth stocks, and broad market ETF's. The oldest stock was obtained in 2003 and the youngest in 2021. The ETF's are all relatively new. I hardly trade (as the term is used) but I will add to them when the market goes on sale. Technically I guess you can call that a trade but I like to think of it as stocking up on a bargain.
If pressed I guess I trade mostly the CEF's in my Roth account at the rate of one trade/mo. The CEF's are primarily income producing assets that take advantage of current market conditions. I don't buy them with the intention of selling but sometimes it's the right choice.
How frequently do you trade? Thank you
@rforno. I greatly value your insights (and read all of them).
I think the buy / sell thread may create the wrong impression. Like you, my long term core holdings rarely change. Most of the portfolio consists of OEFs transferred in or acquired new 5
years ago when I left TRP and opened a brokerage account at Fido. (The newest, LCORX, was acquired a year ago.) Other than occasional rebalancing those are hands-off.
I leave 30% in easier to trade vehicles. These can be CEFs, ETFs and a stock or two. It’s that latter group where I’m willing to experiment / tinker around in pursuit of some extra return. An example would be building a 5% position recently in a stock that has bounced around between $95 and $105. Has required some buying and selling over past month or two to get the
average share price down.
Lawrence McDonald: "How To Listen When Markets Speak." 44% of all US dollars ever created, were created in 2020 and 2021. Ya, that was the Covid era.44% is about right, looking at M2. Such an increase is not unique. There have been other times, other situations aside from Covid, calling for monetary expansion. LBJ's "guns and butter" economy (1964 through 1968) boosted M2 by, oddly enough, 44% also.
OTOH, the subsequent contraction in M2 (5% from April 2022 to Oct 2023) appears to be unique.
Source:
FRED M2 interactive graph"The US dollar has lost 93% of its value since the year 1900."Both of the quotes are designed to shock (or as you colorfully expressed it, to gobsmack). Not to inform or enlighten.
A 93% decline in value in 125
years is an annualized inflation rate of 2.1%, just what the US is targeting. In comparison, a pound sterling in 1900 would have the purchasing power of just 0.6 pennies (UK) in 2024. A decline of 99.4%.
https://www.officialdata.org/uk/inflation/1900?amount=1That's what an
economy in decline looks like.
This is what the US economy looks like:

How frequently do you trade? I've probably gone 2-3 years in my long-long term portfolio. I rarely make moves there.