@rforno Maybe these are not normal markets, but isn't that the point for owning such a fund? I don't want a fund like this to mimic the market during extremes (up or down)...well I am OK with extreme upside correlation...instead, I want a fund like this to position itself to maximize volatility.
6

From the VMVFX annual report:

"Our objective is to create a portfolio that has broad equity exposure with less volatility than the global equity market. We achieved this over the performance period, as the fund’s weekly volatility averaged about 32% less than that of its benchmark.
It is important to mention, as we have in the past, that we do not target a specific volatility level. Rather, we seek to provide an equity fund that has lower absolute risk than the broad global market. Thus, when the broad global equity market is experiencing periods of low volatility, you should expect this fund’s volatility to be much closer to the volatility level of its benchmark.

We recognize that equity-like returns are also an important outcome of an investment in this fund, but achieving a total return higher than the benchmark’s is not our objective. Although our research leads us to expect that, on average, a minimum volatility fund may outperform the overall global market in sharp downturns (while still experiencing losses), the fund should be expected to trail in strong bull markets. With that in mind, because the fund is expected to have a lower level of risk than the global equity market, you should not expect it to outperform the market over the long run.
We think an acceptable comparative performance measure for the fund over the long term is its risk-adjusted return. This can be calculated by dividing the portfolio’s total return for the period by the annualized standard deviation of weekly returns. We view 12 months to be a relatively short time, but for the annual period, the risk-adjusted return was about 1.64, compared with 1.14 for the benchmark. Over a longer period— since the fund’s inception on December 12, 2013—its risk-adjusted return was 1.21, compared with 0.89 for the benchmark."
... I guess we just own things for different reasons and/or have different perspectives, which is fine. I don't expect this fund to completely zig when others completely zag. IMO, you can build the most stable oceanliner in the world to minimize the roll of the waves, but if you encouter hellaciously rough seas (ala the 'Poseidon Adventure'), you're going to feel it regardless of how well it's built. I'm not concerned here.

Seems to me a minimum volatility fund should be positioned to deal with both upside (optimize positive volatility) and downside (minimize negative volatility). In a sense, I am referring to successfully positioning a fund to maximize "upside/downside capture".
IMHO, when a fund is successful at capturing more of the upside (positive volatility) while limiting some of the downside (some of the selloff or negative volatility) you've "maximized" volatility.
According to M* VMVFX has an upside capture of 65 (65/100th of the upside of the category) and a downside capture of 35 (35/100th of the downside of the category). These numbers are not much different than VWINX capture of 68% of upside and 37% of the downside. That is impressive under normal market conditions. Under stressful conditions the difference between the two (VMVFX vs VWINX) YTD looks like this:
https://screencast.com/t/mdvS7utO
@rforno Maybe these are not normal markets, but isn't that the point for owning such a fund? I don't want a fund like this to mimic the market during extremes (up or down)...well I am OK with extreme upside correlation...instead, I want a fund like this to position itself to maximize volatility.
Volatility is opportunity.
High volatility on the downside creates buying opportunities and high volatility on the upside create capital appreciation.
It feels like VMVFX misses the mark on both counts.
For what it's worth PRGSX has an upside capture of 116 while maintaining a downside capture of 53. Better volatility numbers in my opinion.
Other note worthy "captures" (upside/downside):
PRWCX - 119/79
PRMTX - 123/66

I'm not sure that I've imported the daily figures correctly from Yahoo (website change among other uncertainties), and I think that daily returns tend to have too much noise (which is one reason why std dev of funds is typically calculated on monthly returns).
Given those qualifications, it seems that YTD VMVFX still has lower volatility. I calculate the standard deviations of the daily returns for VMVFX and PRGSX to be respectively 0.0114 and 0.0149.
This is even visible in the graph @bee provided. PRGSX crisscrosses VMVFX - generally as the latter turns up, the former turns up more sharply, and as the latter dips (e.g. multiple times in late January and around the third week of February), the former takes sharper dives. (Std dev takes the square of movements, so it exaggerates the differences at extreme points.)
Sometimes though, pictures are not worth a thousand words. Dull black and white numbers on a page can give a more accurate "picture".

It’s the financial exposure. They’ve really gotten clocked since rates plunged. They’ve been expecting rates to rise for couple years. That would be benefit banks, etc. Their balanced fund, DODBX, is also lagging. It’s equity holdings are similar to DODGX. No crystal ball here - but I think it’s fair to say that their recent performance isn’t on a par with their storied reputation. It could just be that you and I don’t have the same longer term focus these guys have.
Edit: - Have a few extra minutes here so will elaborate. D&C has low fees for a managed fund house. Over long periods, that shows up in your return. Very long term (10, 20, 30 years) they stand up well). Nearer term can be a bumpy ride. I have a small allocation to DODBX in my most aggressive sleeve. I carry a similar allocation to PRWCX. Over many decades, I’d expect those two to run about even - but PRWCX has outshined now for about a decade. Great hot manager. And good luck.
The larger portion of my above mentioned investment sleeve, however, is in RPGAX. Long term it shouldn’t do as well as the other two (for lots of reasons). However, if like myself you view current markets as “frothy”, than RPGAX should hold up better in such an environment since it’s better hedged.
Not meant as advice. Just my (amateur) views. BTW - I dumped OAKBX over a year ago. I didn’t think the managers were consistently hewing to their stated philosophy. The fund’s behavior indicated something else. I can’t say that of D&C. In this case, they’ve held true to their deep value long term approach. Markets just aren’t cooperating.

M* says it's in the top 10% of its category year to date.
I expect to be buying some for my taxable sometime this year.

DODGX will be bumpy. But for me, the returns have been better than the S&P 500 since I bought it for my taxable (4/15/1991) and retirement account (10/06/2011). So I am happy.
Most of the experts I've ever read say you should have some exposure to overseas markets. So DODFX is probably as good as any of them. Given the bets you describe, it may be even bumpier, as well as a longer wait to beat its benchmark.
I do like the way they do business. There's just one low fee for everyone buying the funds. And the turnovers on their portfolios are low.
I don't care for funds that have a large discrepancy between the surfs and the lords. And I don't think there are all that many people smart enough to beat the market trading rapidly. It just adds a cost drag to returns.
I bought DODIX this past December when I was rebalancing my retirement account to lean more on bonds. I was attracted to their A avg rating and lower than average duration.
I wouldn't sell anything in this environment unless I needed the money, or wanted to realize a tax loss for some reason. I have enough cash to go shopping, probably sometime later this year. So I don't need to sell anything.
I might even buy more DODGX for the IRA. It is currently suffering worse than the S&P 500. And may continue to do so for a while.

During 'normal' periods, VMVFX has been fine. However, when you have such a violent and immediate equity selloff across the board, all correlations go to 1 and I would not expect any equity fund to perform noticeably better than others. Sometimes you just have to take your lumps.
Reminder: I've owned VMVFX since inception, not for the volatility thing but b/c I like how the fund is comprised as a quirky & very low-cost global stock fund that skews midcap.

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2020/3/10/harvard-tobacco-stocks-divestment/
Harvard Indirectly Holds Nearly $100,000 Worth of Stocks in Tobacco Companies
The Harvard Management Company indirectly holds an estimated $98,265.08 worth of shares through exchange-traded funds which include tobacco companies, an industry Harvard divested from in 1990, according to The Crimson’s analysis of HMC’s public filings to the Federal Securities and Exchange Commission.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4330687-spy-looking-for-new-bottom
SPY -Looking For The New Bottom
Mar. 09, 2020 S&P 500 Trust ETF
The SPY is smart about the novel coronavirus, COVID-19.
However, its first attempt at discounting the economic impact just failed.
When the news becomes worse than expected, the SPY drops to a lower bottom.
Sunday, overnight futures dropped to 2,818 and the SPY is looking for a new bottom below $286.
The next support level is at $277 and near the 50% retracement of the last move up to the last high. However, there are no supports in a falling market until price stops falling

TBGVX isn't doing much better. I just looked again. I owned it many years ago. Those 2 Oakmark funds are less than 10% of your taxable account, you say. With Markets that have fallen so far, so fast--- virtually into "Bear" territory--- you might pull the plug, in order to buy into a domestic fund or two. You can live just fine without necessarily owning any foreign stuff. I've reduced my foreign stuff to 7% of my total. The whole WORLD'S Markets are getting hammered. Or is there maybe a single-stock you've had your eye on, tracking just for fun--- until you have some money to throw at it?
What you want to look for is a fund with good "downside capture." Check the Risk profile for any that catch your eye.
OAKIX: 148, quite bad. (Morningstar.)
OAKBX 160, also poor.
DODFX 127, not great.
MAPIX 93, much better, but its upside capture is not fabulous, though: 93. (yes, same number.)
FIGSX 68 downside, 109 upside. Quite good. Still, that is only one metric, one statistic. It's down YTD by over 13%, though. I dunno if you'd find anything at all above the break-even line, tonight.
Domestic: VLAAX
BRUFX
...Hope this helps.

Hi, been awhile since i've been here and wonder if i could get some opinion. My port is 40% equity, 60% FI. I have held OAKIX and OAKBX to fulfill diversification in providing foreign market exposure, and the positions combined comprise
less than 10% of my Taxable account. I'm disappointed in performance of both - lagging for a few years now but YTD both down double-digits. I recognize these are being hurt by the value-bias style that has been out of favor for quite a few years... Herro @ Oakmark has favored financials which of course negative interest rates are pummeling worse than the overall market. IF rates rise, theoretically financials - and in turn Oakmark funds would be expected to improve. However to exit basically 'at the bottom' in current conditions obviously invokes tax consequences. That said, how long is long enough to give these a chance; they are in the bottom 2% of Foreign Blend funds. NAV losses have mounted radically and obviously the CV market volatility is accelerating that. Similarly a recent buy into VG EM Fund VMMSX has yielded significant immediate losses but the OAK funds are more my concern right now. Longwinded lead-in to the question.. What would be pros/cons of holding vs taking the losses - what's an educated guess as to the realistic chance that the OAK funds rebound anytime in say, the next year or so.... What might be a lower risk more 'normal' international fund(s) substitute to consider? As for the EM equity side, again not a huge position but had been in the lagging AEMGX before chosing - a little too hastily to swap into VMMSX (VG) - tho Black Rock in hindsight MDDCX would've been a better choice IMO... but open to suggestions on others to study as well.
BTW, am 61 y/o, no debt, working less, PF generating in the realm of 55-65k/year in Dividend Income. PF value after today's/past week's crash, about 1.87M after recent all time high(Feb) of 2.1M. Thanks! Mike

Actually, the market could get even worse starting with the American consumer driven economy.

it looks like predictions of a “V” shaped downturn with a quick, sharp rebound are probably off base.

https://msn.com/en-us/money/markets/why-the-outlook-for-the-economy-just-got-worse/ar-BB10X9S5

Lots of stuff today to cover
Multi- PTIAX at 0% was fantastic. VCFAX at -0.3% and IOFIX at -0.4 was not bad when SEMMX was down -0.46. JMUTX+JMSIX -1.3% was another proof why securitized is the best. Second-tier PUCZX at -2.9% and PIMIX is still missing, I guess they are afraid to show the results. PDIIX lost -2.4%. The Pimco guys are not doing well at all.
HY Muni lost about -0.5 to -0.7 but OPTAX just at -0.37
Bank loans - fell sharply. EIFAX -3.1 and SPFLX -2.35
HY lost even more at least at -3% to -4%
"Cash sub" - DHEAX confirmed itself as a great choice for performance and stability with just -0.1
Cose plus - PINCX -0.13...BCOIX -0.4....DODIX -1%(as expected)...USIBX -0.45...BND -0.2...FIJEX -0.95
==========
Rates were down dramatically but higher rated bonds(even the index BND) didn't go up. I see it as a problem. The markets are crazy, volatile and without a direction. I did nicely YTD and will start buying when markets tell me what to do.
I sold my 3 funds (huge % in PINCX, smaller % in BCOIX and a small % in IOFIX...I bought PINCX+BCOIX earlier last week) and now at 99% cash. I lost today -0.22% which was a surprise because I thought I will make money.

@bee Still not actually IN VLAAX yet. It may never happen. The paperwork seems to have landed in the Twilight Zone. I'm researching alternatives. And at this point, we can afford to wait for the Market to recover. I must keep an eye on that old 403b, though. Lots of firms charge a fee just for holding your money, if you're not still an active employee. That one (VEIRX) is by now, down -17% YTD. BRUFX is, as Vintage Freak mentioned, "holding up well." VLAAX is still UP by a fraction for 2020. Cripes. I just love paying for other people's screw-ups.

IIRC, RPSIX has a 10 to 15% exposure to PRFDX .

The Admiral share has only lower ER 0.16% with $50k minimum.

Thanks so much, both of you. The minimum is only $1,000.00? Jeez. Shares cost $566.64 tonight!

It's 1K, but you have to purchase direct. Thanks for reminding me. This has been on my shopping list for a while. I'm going to track it now. It's holding up really well.

$1000 at TIAA.

Over the years, I've not been convinced Affiliated Research (Mr. Arnott, and associates); and especially in light of reviewing 2 Pimco offerings over the years; that I would have a profitable adventure from their methods.
A simple chart review of PAUIX / PAAIX / vs FBALX and VWINX long term returns.
Regards,
Catch