Howdy
@rjb112 and
@Charles, et al
The recent thread regarding doom and gloom in September morphed into a "how in the heck do I find real and total return numbers for funds, etc."
Several years ago I wandered from site to site in search of the "easy", for discovering total returns. I don't have enough time in my day now, to do math calculations and related; and continue to use Stockcharts.com to do all of the work for me. No subscription is required for this basic use. NOTE: newer funds may not be found for reference. I don't know what time frame is used by the site for inclusion.
The link below is a reply to "rick" just two months ago about using Stockcharts.com. This link is to the entire thread,
but you will find my reply to "rick" regarding Stockcharts, a tiny bit down the page. Use the "chart link" in the first reply to "rick" to take you to the Stockchart page; which is an active page that you may use. http://www.mutualfundobserver.com/discuss/discussion/comment/43537/#Comment_43537This link is a short video regarding Stockcharts and their inclusion of dividends in calculations. You may find something of value with this.
http://stockcharts.com/articles/mailbag/2014/01/how-can-i-plot-dividend-adjusted-data-and-unadjusted-data.htmlLastly, it is my understanding that Smartmoney.com includes all distributions for total return numbers. I have not used their site for this purpose.
Okay, I am away to finish walls and paint before the carpet folks arrive in a few days.
Have a good one.....
Catch
Comments
And Catch. If you have "how to fix 1 ft x 1 ft hole in ceiling drywall by yourself" tips for me I would appreciate it. I can fix any electronics but water, dust, paint gives me the heebeejeebees.
Repairing a hole in the wall
...rolling returns over X years...
What is highest X you think is of interest?
10, 15...20?
Let me know.
Thanks, c
I an still in the process of evaluating the website below as a tool to obtain performance data, but so far it seems like an amazing tool and super easy to use. Of course with any website/tool, such as the one you referenced and the one below, the key issue is whether or not it is accurate.
http://longrundata.com/longrundata/index.php
With regards to smartmoney.com and it including distributions for total return data: Morningstar does include distributions in their total return data. I am extremely impressed with the accuracy of Morningstar's data. The only thing I don't like about it is that the data they provide is limited.
They provide calendar year data from 2004 thru present, but not prior to 2004.
And they don't provide data for any begin and end date that you might be interested in.
That's why I am so interested in the site you referenced, and the one I referenced as well. If they are accurate, we are in business. The site I referenced is more user friendly, in that stockcharts.com, as you mentioned, cannot often easily accept any start and end date you wish......although apparently it is easy to get within 1, 2 or 3 days of your desired time frame.
You noted: "in that stockcharts.com, as you mentioned, cannot often easily accept any start and end date you wish......although apparently it is easy to get within 1, 2 or 3 days of your desired time frame."
>>>At the 200day slider below the graph area, yes; one may "left click" and hold to move the entire 200 day time from to the left and move backwards in time, or; "left click" and hold only the left end of the slider and move left to travel backwards as far as a fund inception date may allow. NOTE: I have not checked to find whether there is a limit as to how far backwards in time that stockcharts allows.
Also, as two examples: one may drag the left side of the 200 day slider to the left to 1256 days, which is about 5 years time.....or 2518 days which is about 10 years of a backward look. Another: is to leave the slider at the 1256 (5 year period) just mentioned and then left click onto the slider and hold, then drag the slider around to different time frames of a 5 year period.
At the bottom right corner of the graph, one will find the corner filled with several small diagonal lines. Holding the mouse here will allow you to shrink the size of the graph as you move towards the upper, left corner. I have to do this; as I can't fit the entire image with dates at the top and still see all of the other info a the bottom of the area where the slider and tickers symbols are placed.
Lastly, I find that getting close (within a few days of data) is more than accurate for my needs. I also like to use the "red and green" graphing icon at the far left edge, after having viewed the line chart. Especially when viewing up to ten symbols. Additionally, when a line chart is displayed, the mouse pointer may be placed upon the line to find a date and dollar value represented by the graph.
Ok, my eyes sting from painting all day long and so pillow time for me soon.
Catch
re drywall hole: The existing ceiling drywall (sheetrock) is either nailed or screwed to the ceiling joists. Ceiling joists are long pieces of lumber which span the distance from wall to wall, supporting the ceiling (and if a multi-storey house, the floor above). Typically they are called 2 x "something", the "something" being the height of the joist, typically 6", 8", or even larger depending upon the type of structure. In actuality the dimensions are not true to those numerical values, as they are trimmed substantially to provide a smooth surface. This trimming removes 1/2" from all dimensions, making the 2" surface actually only 1 1/2".
So the existing sheetrock is fastened to those joists, which are typically spaced 18" apart. To repair a section, you would use a small drywall handsaw to make the irregular hole as square or rectangular as possible, trimming the hole back to the joists. At that point its probably easiest to screw or nail a small piece of wood, say a 1x4 (again, actually 3/4" x 3 1/2") alongside the joists, so as to provide additional surfaces for mounting the new ceiling piece. With respect to the 18" span between the joists, it might not be a bad idea to lay additional sections of 1x4 face-down on the top of the existing sheetrock, then screwing it into the existing sheetrock, allowing about a 1 1/2" overhang. At this point you would then have a rectangular hole in the existing ceiling, with four new wood surfaces to screw a patching piece onto.
Cut a new patch piece to fit the hole and screw it onto the new wooden mounting surfaces. Cover the edge joints with drywall tape and paste. Someone at your local hardware store should be able to recommend suitable materials for this part of the job. Sand the new joint gently to make it as even as possible, then repaint the entire ceiling.
Good luck.
But it gave me the result in terms of cumulative total return, and Charles presented his data in terms of annualized return. Is there something you need to click on stockcharts.com to get annualized total return instead?
Doesn't the "adjusted close" column in Yahoo's historical prices do this ("adjusted for dividends and splits")?
See last column.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=SPY+Historical+Prices
The original thread was looking at the calculation of the annualized return of SPY from November 1, 2007 thru June 30, 2014.
Charles presented the formula he used to calculate that annualized return.
I went back to Yahoo Finance, and the numbers Charles used for the starting and ending NAV, "adjusted for dividends and splits", were the same.
3 would show how fund does across typical 50% declines
5 would show investor patience justified or not (all those people lamenting investor returns don't match fund returns need to get a reality check)
But I think you are right that 5 and perhaps even 7 may better capture cycle for more patient investors.
Perhaps could start making available in screening tools max and min 3, 5, 7 rolling returns for all funds.
Will work on that!
I must be misunderstanding this question, because M* does this so far as I can tell, via the sliders at the bottom of the 'More' graph --- no? What am I missing? Or you can simply stick in, manually, different start and end dates. M* now shows return math totals for each individual curve when you click it too. Apologies for not understanding what it is you desire.
You noted:
I went onto stockcharts.com to put in the data that Charles presented on the other thread, SPY from Nov 1, 2007-June 30, 2014. You titled this thread "the quick method". Messing with that slider bar did not seem like "the quick method" to me, but eventually I got it!
But it gave me the result in terms of cumulative total return, and Charles presented his data in terms of annualized return. Is there something you need to click on stockcharts.com to get annualized total return instead?
>>> The longrundata web site you noted seems to be the best for what you and others are doing with annualized returns in a given time period. Thank you, a nice site to use, too.
I primarily use stockcharts to compare several funds over what ever time period I choose, if the fund data is available (new fund).
Two examples I have used, among others are:
---The time period around July, 2011 and more recent, the May-Sept, 2013 period.
The most recent period was used to monitor several bond funds; 3 of which are FTBFX, PIMIX and FBNDX. Obviously, these charts today may be of interest for viewing but do not give one a full picture of actions today, as the holdings of some of these funds has changed. But, I do attempt to maintain a sense of sensitivity to circumstances which affect funds in various ways. Data that gets stashed away in the memory cells to help with "intuitive" investings.
Note: I do not find any information that indicates a method of obtaining annualized return data at stockcharts.com.
We all have sites that we find of use for our methods of investing madness, eh?
Thank you for your time with input to this thread.
Catch
I like how you put it, 'our methods of investing madness'......yeah, we all have our tastes and quirks....