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Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.

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Last Year, Investors Couldn’t Lose. This Year, They Can’t Win. What’s Next?

FYI: Stocks have rallied lately and could end 2018 with modest gains. But it has been a tough year across the asset-class universe: Bonds are in a rut, and losses have piled up in oil, gold, and emerging markets—just about everything.

The scope of negative returns is unusual. According to Deutsche Bank, 89% of the global financial indexes it tracks were negative for the year in dollar terms, through the end of October. On average, 29% of financial markets finish a year with losses. In 2017, a dart-throwing monkey could have made money. Of 71 stock, bond, currency, and commodity indexes tracked by Deutsche Bank, only one ended in negative territory in dollars: the Philippine bond market.
Regards,
Ted
https://www.barrons.com/articles/last-year-investors-couldnt-lose-this-year-they-cant-win-whats-next-1543617074

Comments

  • Just took a look at the #s last night. My tax deferred accounts in total are down about .8% YTD 2018, pretty much zero change over 1 year. Either I'm doing something very wrong, or this Trump-bump thing was all just a catchy phrase.
  • edited December 2018
    MikeM said:

    My tax deferred accounts in total are down about .8% YTD 2018, pretty much zero change over 1 year.

    That’s excellent @MikeM. Even T. Rowe’s fine conservative TRRIX (40/60) is off more than that at -.92% YTD. And their newly minted TMSRX (an attempt at running a hedge fund) has been on the skids since its inception in March. Off close to 4% last time I looked. They won’t get many takers with that kind of performance. (Unfortunately, I took the bait and own a small slice of it.)

    Like you, I’m off slightly this year. In recent years my down years were followed by pretty good years. Of course, could be different this time around.

  • @hank- Some might say that you've been "slightly off" for some time now. But not me... I'd never say a thing like that!! :)
  • Sorry... just couldn't let that one get by.
  • @MikeM: How is your robo account doing compared to "Your " account, I was just wondering ?
    Thanks Derf
  • edited December 2018
    Hello all.

    For me my near term retruns are much like those that have shared their results. My bogey the lipper balanced index is fairing much like myself and what the others have stated.

    Another bogey that I picked up to mark against is Franklin LifeSmart Retirement Fund A (FTRAX). One of the reason I chose this fund for a bogey is that it sports a 4.1% yield which is a little higher yield than my master portfolio at 3.1% but higher than other retirement funds I looked at. As I write, the one, the three, the five and the ten year rolling periods FTRAX has returned 0.52%, 2.83%, 2.42%, and 7.32% respectively. Notice that the funds total return does not cover its yield for the 1, 3 & 5 year periods. This is not good from my perspective; but, it is still a bogey because of its yield. In compairson, my master portfolio sports a current 3.1% yield and its 1, 3, 5 & 10 year rolling total returns are 0.32%, 6.10%, 4.71% & 8.98%. In review, the only period that I have not covered my yield is for the 1 year period.

    So if you are in retirement you might wish to review how the portfolio you have assembled is fairing against the tatget-date retirement class of funds. As I write, Morningstar list their collective performance at -0.84%, 3.65% and 3.06% for the rolling 1, 3 & 5 year periods.

    Take care,

    Old_Skeet
  • edited December 2018
    Old_Joe said:

    @hank- Some might say that you've been "slightly off" for some time now.

    That ain’t far from the truth Old Joe. It’s the reason I’ve moved more to a static allocation and quit messing around with things. (Less drain on the ol’ brain).:)
  • edited December 2018
    One recent development is encouraging: at least something approaching the 'normal' negative price correlation between safer rate-sensitive debt and equities is back, as is the positive correlation between risky credit and equities. (No telling how strong for how long.) So at least for now, we can make a halfway intelligent guess that if xxx, then my portfolio will xxx.

    At this point, this year's results don't look all that different from 2015-16, well, except for the lurking probability that we're getting close to the end of a major cycle.
  • edited December 2018
    I've read somewhere that, on average, for every 3 (or 4?) up-years for stocks there is one down-year.

    The total market has been up every year (including this year, so far) since 2008.

    And checking "BND" at M*, the total bond market is down 1.95% YTD, and the only time since BEFORE 2008 (which was an up-year) bonds were down was in 2013 at -2.10%.

    I'm not sure what the concern is. Do most people really think that markets should only go up every year?
  • Hi @Derf. The robo is down -1.3% YTD. My self managed is -.6%. Over all down -.9%. Not apples to apples though because the robo is about 60/40 mix of eq/bnds+cash with about 5% gold sprinkled in. Where as I'm more conservative in my self managed portfolio, somewhere around 45% equities.
  • With respect toward @Low_Tech's comment re: "Do most people really think that markets should only go up every year?"

    Probably not but it is certainly preferred.
  • And as long as I'm here I decided to take a peek at my portfolio returns YTD. As most of you already know I am a dividend growth investor who holds mostly individual stocks, preferred stocks and CEF's primarily PIMCO bond funds. I do however hold 6 mutual funds who's holdings and returns are kept separate from my taxable brokerage account and my Roth account. According to M* the YTD returns are: TB- +3.75%, Roth - +5.51% and Mutual funds - +5.14. It's likely that my taxable brokerage (TB) account might have shown better results if that were not the account that I siphon off cash to pay my bills with. Then again, if I hadn't used the cash to pay bills who knows what stupid investing idea I might have used it on. Oh well. Someday I hope to be like Ted and pull most of it out and just watch the market circus w/o paying the admission fee.
  • @MikeM: Thanks for your reply. Other than Robo cost I'm assuming that portfolio is twice as risky as your own portfolio. -1.3% vs -.6 .
    Derf
  • edited December 2018
    @ Mark: Would you mind posting your MF's. I'll have to take a look at mind but off the top of my head , I'm thinking 3 or 4 on the + side. Schwab portfoilo down -.37 YTD.
    Thanks for your time & good investing to you,
    Derf
  • @Derf: per your request DSENX, FCNTX, MGGPX, PRHSX, POAGX & TIBIX
  • edited December 2018
    @Mark: Thanks for your time . I'll take a peak as soon as the dust settles, market & 8/th day into a 4 block move !!
    Derf
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