Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.
Well, glad to see outflows of American Funds. I am not a fan of their business model, which I've posted about previously.
But, sad to see outflows of D&C. They are a quality shop, but granted, not unexpected, given they got caught in the 100 year value trap of 2008...and, their terrible flagship stock pick heavy HPQ.
Good to see inflows, as expected, at T Rowe Price, DoubleLine, PIMCO, and Vanguard.
Again, the issue for me is the way they prey on unsuspecting young professionals who are trying to do the right thing...save for the future. So, American Funds will pitch their funds, hand-out brochures, and press these folks to sign-up for auto-deduction from their pay checks. Good right? Only the fine print has American Funds raking in a 6% front-load on every savings deposit...from every pay check of every unsuspecting teacher in every school across America, as an example.
I, of course, favored Old_Joe's conclusion:
"Would I recommend American Funds for someone just starting out today? No...no need to pay that load. I would instead suggest either Vanguard or Fidelity, and lots of questions here on MFO."
Practices like these get me frustrated. Not just at American Funds, at the industry in general. The worst is Edward Jones (see Ouch...biting commentary on Edward Jones).
Look, I know these shops are in business to make money. But they do so by exploiting both people's ignorance and their emotional desire to do the right thing.
Sites like MFO help address the former. Like scott and others have discussed, we need to make basic investing principles part of an early education curriculum.
Reply to @Charles: I don't believe that AF pitches to retail investors. Also I believe that 401k participants don't pay the load. And AF ER's are second lowest after Vanguard.
There are lots of AF funds that can't be duplicated elsewhere. I'm not puffing AFand I don't care who invests where, just trying to set the record straight.
Reply to @Desota: We have had enough invested with American Funds for many years to eliminate the load issue. However you'd better believe that they (aka: their "independent representatives) "pitch to retail investors". Also, unless something has drastically changed, they surely do impose a front load on 403b investors. As they make no mention of exemption for 401k accounts, I am skeptical that they are load-free.
Reply to @Old_Joe: Around 2009, I was in a 401k plan that featured American Funds funds that were no-load share classes. I believe they were R-3 or R-5 share classes. The R class you get in retirement plan depends on how much record keeping/administrative services are to be performed by American funds and how much your company is willing to contribute to running the plan (if they pay out of company funds or let you pay with higher expenses)
For example: Growth Fund of America
Ticker Class ER Load ------ ----- ---- ---------------- AGTHX A %0.71 %5.75 (Front) AGRBX B %1.46 %5.00 (Deferred) GFACX C %1.49 %1.00 (Deferred) GFAFX F1 %0.68 - GFFFX F2 %0.44 - RGAAX R1 %1.44 - RGABX R2 %1.41 - RGACX R3 %0.98 - RGAEX R4 %0.69 - RGAFX R5 %0.39 - RGAGX R6 %0.34 -
I believe they do have sometimes F-3 and also various 529 share classes as well.
There is no question in my mind that inflows to PIMCO, and probably Vanguard and Price as well are due to the large number of fixed-income products they have. And PIMCOs funds run by Bob Arnott have been popular, although the average investor probably does not have a clue how those funds are run. But probably the biggest factor in whether large firms gained or lost big amounts is their ability to be added to or stay on 401k plans. The fact is that fewer plans use Janus, Columbia, Hartford, Pioneer, and others that either have limited bond options or have simply had miserable risk/reward profiles. Companies like Vanguard and PIMCO and DFA, with reasonable expenses and lots of bond options, are more attractive to investors and plan fiduciaries.
Comments
But, sad to see outflows of D&C. They are a quality shop, but granted, not unexpected, given they got caught in the 100 year value trap of 2008...and, their terrible flagship stock pick heavy HPQ.
Good to see inflows, as expected, at T Rowe Price, DoubleLine, PIMCO, and Vanguard.
Thanks.
Again, the issue for me is the way they prey on unsuspecting young professionals who are trying to do the right thing...save for the future. So, American Funds will pitch their funds, hand-out brochures, and press these folks to sign-up for auto-deduction from their pay checks. Good right? Only the fine print has American Funds raking in a 6% front-load on every savings deposit...from every pay check of every unsuspecting teacher in every school across America, as an example.
I, of course, favored Old_Joe's conclusion:
"Would I recommend American Funds for someone just starting out today? No...no need to pay that load. I would instead suggest either Vanguard or Fidelity, and lots of questions here on MFO."
Practices like these get me frustrated. Not just at American Funds, at the industry in general. The worst is Edward Jones (see Ouch...biting commentary on Edward Jones).
Look, I know these shops are in business to make money. But they do so by exploiting both people's ignorance and their emotional desire to do the right thing.
Sites like MFO help address the former. Like scott and others have discussed, we need to make basic investing principles part of an early education curriculum.
There are lots of AF funds that can't be duplicated elsewhere. I'm not puffing AFand I don't care who invests where, just trying to set the record straight.
For example: Growth Fund of America
Ticker Class ER Load
------ ----- ---- ----------------
AGTHX A %0.71 %5.75 (Front)
AGRBX B %1.46 %5.00 (Deferred)
GFACX C %1.49 %1.00 (Deferred)
GFAFX F1 %0.68 -
GFFFX F2 %0.44 -
RGAAX R1 %1.44 -
RGABX R2 %1.41 -
RGACX R3 %0.98 -
RGAEX R4 %0.69 -
RGAFX R5 %0.39 -
RGAGX R6 %0.34 -
I believe they do have sometimes F-3 and also various 529 share classes as well.