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Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.

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MRFOX

OTHER THEN PURCHASING DIRECTLY WHERE CAN YOU BUY MRFOX? ITS AVAILABLE AT SCHWAB BUT PAYING A TRANSATION FEE EACH PURCHASE IS TOO MUCH.

Comments

  • Firstrade - $1K min, $100 additional.
    Fund Symbol: MRFOX View Prospectus
    Fund Type: No Load Open for Investment: Yes Settlement Period: 1 day
    NAV*: $29.65 Initial Minimum Amount: $1,000.00 Cut-Off Time: 4:00 PM
    NAV Change: -$0.04 Subsequent Amount: $100.00
  • edited February 10
    I've looked at this fund and commented on it on another thread. I'm just not sure what the fascination is with a (now) LCG fund that has these cat rankings since inception:

    LCB
    Year__Cat Rank
    2016__8
    2017__4

    LCG
    Year__Cat Rank

    2018__15
    2019__19
    2020__96
    2021__72
    2022__1**
    2023__96
    2024__89

    And its portfolio as of 11/30/23, Sectors and individual holdings that is, leaves a LOT to be desired.
    https://www.morningstar.com/funds/xnas/mrfox/portfolio

    ** = Noted that it did lead the pack in the downer year of 2022 with a 5.1% TR. Other than that, ugh!

    There are SO MANY great LCG OEFs. This one does NOT appear on my radar. YMMV.
  • edited February 10
    @stillers

    I know very little about this fund, but I think it’s more of a long-short or tactical allocation fund (or one that’s willing to go to cash), that just happens to be holding a LCG allocation at this time. Also, category rankings might give false information, similar to RPHYX compared to other HY funds (when maybe it should be compared to short/ultrashort bonds ).

    Again this is just reading the threads about it and doing a deep dive into the fund.

    But I don’t think VWUAX, FCNTX, or even FBGRX is a fair comparison. Maybe it’s a growthier PVCMX?

    (Again, this all just off the top of my head…..an “anti-msf post” hahaha—his posts are so thoroughly researched I’m almost embarrassed to post in the same forum as him!! Haha)
  • Schwab will sometimes waive or refund the transaction fee if you ask. YMMV, my local office wouldn’t do it but the Texas-based financial consultant assigned to my account got it done.
  • edited February 10
    I believe that a comparison of MRFOX with VOO (S&P 500) and the famous Giroux find PRWCX can be quite informative.

    Out of these 3 funds, MRFOX is the only one that has not had a single down year since its inception in Jan 2016. VOO is the most volatile of them.

    MRFOX is 253% up since inception, VOO is 184% up, and PRWCX is 134% up, i.e. almost 2 times less than MRFOX.

    5 year Sharpe ratio for MRFOX is 1, for VOO it is 0.71, and for PRWCX it is 0.74.

    Of course, this great 8-year-long performance may be just luck, but according to the managers, the longer-term performance of their separately managed accounts is similarly impressive.
  • Call me superstitious but I would be wary of a fund whose ticker symbol is Mister Fox.
  • edited February 11
    Here is the Schwab MRFOX data sheet:
    https://www.schwab.wallst.com/Prospect/Research/mutualfunds/Summary.asp?symbol=mrfox
    =======================================

    So @Graust makes a great point about what this fund actually may be, and that appears to be confirmed (to me at least) by the data sheet. MFROX has significantly outperformed the fund @Graust noted, PVCMX. And it ain't even close!

    But, FWIW, if it is misclassified and more of a long-short or tactical allocation fund, then that leaves me even LESS interested in it as I do not use either of those categories in my port as I KNOW that I can and do select other dedicated stock funds that will outperform them. I also don't want to have to open a Marshfield or Firstrade a/c just to own MRFOX.

    Bottom Line: ALWAYS good to know what we are BUYing BEFORE we BUY it, and thanks to @Graust for advancing the discussion on that critical issue. It makes a world of difference looking through the proper glasses and @Graust has assisted me on that plenty of times over the years!
    ========================================

    @finder, I accept your or anyone's comparison to VOO as the overall, general comparison I also do for ANY dedicated stock investment I make. Any yes, it has performed, as you noted, far better than VOO since its inception. FWIW, outperforming VOO/FXAIX is the hurdle I use for selection of ANY dedicated stock fund I plan to own or own, so MRFOX at least is over that hurdle.

    But I don't accept comparing it to PRWCX which routinely runs 70/30 to 60/40. One would need to gross up PRWCX's TR for a fairer comparison. Not going there.

    That said, If it's OK to compare it to PRWCX, then wouldn't it also be OK to compare it to at least another fund in its (arguably incorrect) M* LCG category, like BPTIX:

    MRFOX is 254% up since inception, BPTIX is up 384%, i.e. about 1.5x MORE than MRFOX.

    And If it's OK to compare it to PRWCX, then why not also compare it to arguably the best performing dedicated stock fund on the planet since its inception, FSELX? At least FSELX is a dedicated stock fund like MRFOX:

    MRFOX is 254% up since inception, FSELX is up 698%, i.e. about 1.75x MORE than MRFOX.
    ========================================

    Bottom Line: I now have a better appreciation of the fascination for this fund. But now have less than ZERO plans to own it! YMMV.

    Disclaimer: I am a LT holder of both PRWCX and FSELX, before the inception date of MFROX.
  • edited February 11
    MFROX
    First test for me, can I buy it at Fidelity or Schwab? I can buy it at Schwab at $1000 min in IRA and $10K min in taxable. It has a$49.95 fee (that is waived for me). But, This fund has a 2 % redemption fee if sold within 90 days.
    MFROX is an excellent risk-reward fund and how you should look at funds.
    First question: how many stock funds do you know that were not down in 2018 + 2022 + beat the SP500 in the last 8 years? I bet not many

    Let's go deeper
    Using portfolio V and comparing SPY,MFROX,PRWCX (link) shows that MFROX has better Sharpe (risk/reward) than PRWCX(one of the best allocation funds). MFROX max draw is better than SPY+PRWCX. MFROX Sortino(down volatility) is great at 2. If a stock fund can compete on down volatility with an allocation fund, it's a good testimony.
    Next test: I screened the Schwab database for all funds that have Sharp > 0.9 + average annual performance over 15%...and I got only 3 MFROX, FSPCX(Fidelity select insurance), BIVIX(Invenomic Fund Institutional ). BIVIX had Sharpe>1.6 + Performance>16% = extremely good.

    Questions about FSELX
    If every fund you are going to compare to FSELX, why are you holding anything else, or why not at least 30% of your portfolio, after all, hindsight is great.
    Do most investors should own a unique fund like FSELX? No. FSELX had an amazing run, congrats to anyone who owned it.

    MFO rating
    Again, pretty good, see (https://www.member.mfopremium.com/riskprofile/)
    OWL=yes
    Composite MFO Rating:5-Best...
    Fund Alarm Risk: -2 - Lowest Risk
    Yield, 12-mo %: 0.46 (this is great for a taxable account because you don't pay a lot of taxes, VFIAX(SP500) TTM yield = 1.4%)

    Can MFROX be a core fund for your portfolio? IMO, yes. But, a fund like this is based on great calls and trading. Will the future be as good as since inception? nobody knows.

    BIVIX: why has everyone did not hold it from 01/2020 to 12/31/2023, see the chart (https://schrts.co/TXRrcXuN)
    Do you know why only thru 12/31/2023 because hindsight is great and BIVIX lost 8% for YTD. Regardless it made 245% since 01/2020 while SPY made only 66% and QQQ only 111%. And as I said before it's risk/reward since 2020 is pretty good.
  • Two more to compare

    Fidelity® Select Software and IT Services Portfolio
    FSCSX
    7/29/85
    Average annual total return
    16.3% vs SP500 11.21%


    Vanguard Health Care
    VGHCX
    Average annual total return
    15.28% vs SP500 xxx?
    (05/23/1984)

    FSELX
    Average annual total return
    07/29/1985
    14.4% vs SP500 11.21%
  • additional thoughts re MRFOX...

    It is NOT a long/short fund. It is NOT a tactical allocation fund. Nada, nope.
    Composite record, going back 30+years from 1990 thru 2020 is ~ 283 bps above SPY
    Low beta, ~30% less volatile and less correlation vs major indexes.

    What does give me pause is that the managers have done an excellent job investing, they have done so thru key holdings such as ORLY, ROST and ACGL, etc...very "resilient" to market ups and down, well run companies...look at their stock charts, OMG...

    Do wonder, what happens, like if an AKREX scenario unfolds...very concentrated, top holdings performed great until they didn't, brought in some newbies without as much experience at AKREX who invested in Snowflake and got schooled...kinda got stuck in their top holding conviction...that is what is interesting about Ravi Jain, GQEPX, that "NOT pale and stale, "his words, not mine" slick dude is NOT afraid to trade and pull the trigger...he's been mostly on target.

    Hey your monies, invest it the way you are comfortable...Good Luck to ALL

    Baseball Fan
  • VGHCX
    15.28% vs SP500 11.7%
    (05/23/1984)
  • edited February 12
    adios
  • edited February 11
    Understand now?
    MMM..maybe, congrats it's working for you, the more you or anyone else make the better.
    On the other hand, many of us have different styles, risk tolerance and goals.
    My main objectives were always to have an excellent risk/reward portfolio...and I did. What others do is their objectives. I'm OK with just beating the SP500 (although I only needed 6% annually) since retirement (6 years) with an extremely low SD < 3 and using just 2-3 bond funds instead of trading every week and holding over 30 positions (stocks, bonds, CDs). I didn't troll you in any way, but you did = old news. If my trading isn't good, how did I achieve the following(data)?

    BTW, why bring up FSELX at all? Are you going to mention it any time someone posts about any fund?

    Lastly, after years during 2015-17 that you claimed I would not retire and never make it, the reality is different, what a "surprise". I immigrated with nothing and retired after 23 years, and since retirement doubled my money.
  • edited February 11
    I am with @Baseball_Fan with respect to AKRIX and MRFOX. AKRIX was brilliant. I invested in it since its inception, but then its manager retired...

    MRFOX is great, but the two main managers, Christopher Niemczewski and Elise Hoffmann, are husband and wife, planning to retire together in 5-10 years, see the last few minutes of their presentation at https://www.marshfieldinc.com. Thus, I would invest in it for a while, but I would watch it carefully.
  • edited February 12
    I was intrigued by the recent references to FSELX. Very impressive performance for sure. That said, over the prior 3 year period (this is my preferred benchmark) ending 01/31/24 and starting 01/31/21 BIVIX has handily beaten FSELX and this even after BIVIX currently going through a rough patch.

    I personally would not hold more than 5% of FSELX given that it is a sector fund and pretty volatile.

    FSELX: 23.73%
    BIVIX: 38.89%
  • BIVIX yahoo reports 79% in cash !!
  • BIVIX is a long-short fund. The latest information can be found at https://www.invenomic.com
    It says: Long 99.4% Short -89.4$ Net 10.1%. For 1 calendar year, from 30 Dec 22 to 29 Dec Jan 2023, it was 16.5% up. But wait a month: for 1 year, from Feb 10, 2023, to Feb 12, 2024, it is -1%. That is why it is not easy to rely on this fund unless it is on its way up as it was during the previous 2 years.
  • edited February 12
    Lotsa ways to slice and dice data to support a bearish or bullish bias. To wit. Rolling returns remove some of the bias inherent in picking arbitrary start and end dates to compare performance of two securities. Using FSELX vs. BIVIX as an example.

    - Avg 3Y Rolling Return pretty close but at 5Y, BIVIX beats FSELX by almost 3 points
    - Low 3Y Rolling Return for FSELX beats BIVIX by an impressive 11 points
    - However Low 5Y RR for BIVIX beats FSELX by an impressive 8 points
    - Sortino Ratio for BIVIX at 2.52 much stronger than FSELX at 1.43
    - And so on..
  • msf said:

    Firstrade - $1K min, $100 additional.

    Fund Symbol: MRFOX View Prospectus
    Fund Type: No Load Open for Investment: Yes Settlement Period: 1 day
    NAV*: $29.65 Initial Minimum Amount: $1,000.00 Cut-Off Time: 4:00 PM
    NAV Change: -$0.04 Subsequent Amount: $100.00
    So, what's crazy is I've been a Firstrade customer for decades with a decent balance and here is what I see:

    Fund Name: MARSHFIELD CONCENTRATED OPPTY FD
    Fund Symbol: MRFOX View Prospectus I have read the Prospectus
    Fund Type: No Load Open for Investment: Yes Settlement Period: 1 day
    NAV*: $29.71 Initial Minimum Amount: $10,000.00 Cut-Off Time: 4:00 PM
    NAV Change: +$0.18 Subsequent Amount: $100.00 Redemption Fee: see prospectus


    How can they have different minimums for the same account type (mine is regular, not IRA)? I also checked this some time ago and the minimum was also $10K. (Sidenote, the $49.95 at Schwab used to really bother me, but its noise in the grand scheme for a $10K or more purchase).
  • msf
    edited February 15
    FWIW, my account was an IRA (good guess!). I closed it several years ago but the Firstrade still lets me log in though not trade, obviously. So I can pull up some info like this but cannot do things like test trades to see what happens.

    Brokerages are often free to set their own mins. It's pretty well known that one can get institutional class shares with lower mins at many brokerages (typically with a TF). It works the other way, too. Sometimes brokerages set mins above the prospectus min. For example, many brokerages set a $100K min for RPHIX even though the prospectus requires only $50K.

    Firstrade is just following the propsectus for MRFOX. $10K min for regular accounts, $1K for IRAs.
    https://doc.morningstar.com/docdetail.aspx?ticker=MRFOX

    The issue I have with Schwab's fee is that it applies to every purchase. I'm willing to pay the 49.95 basis point charge ($49.95 on $10K) one time to get access to an institutional share class of some fund that saves me 25 basis points per year with its lower ER. I'm a long term investor.

    But I don't want to do that repeatedly with incremental investments. Fidelity's $5 "side door" - adding smaller amounts via auto-invest - makes the initial fee tolerable. (OTOH, Schwab offers funds with lower mins and seems to have a wider assortment.)
  • @msf : " The issue I have with Schwab's fee is that it applies to every purchase. I'm willing to pay the 49.95 basis point charge ($49.95 on $10K) one time to get access to an institutional share class of some fund that saves me 25 basis points per year with its lower ER. I'm a long term investor."

    Check with FD1000. He reports that they give him free trades or something to that reasoning. Talk to a rep & see if they'll give you a break.

    No DCA into a fund with that $ fee !! I don't like that "deal" either. I think Vanguard is the same with purchases outside their own funds .

    Enough said, Derf

  • msf
    edited February 15
    Vanguard gives 25 free trades/year at the Flagship level. Likely you need that much ($1M) at Schwab before they'll give you a break.

    Otherwise, Vanguard charges $3/auto-invest, but with a min of two investments. If you're DCA'ing, that is of no import - you're doing periodic investments already. Under those circumstances, Vanguard is cheaper than Fidelity. And I'll gladly pay $3, or even $5, to save 25 basis points per year (institutional shares vs. retail shares). The break even point is a year with a $2K addition (@Fidelity), and just $1200 at Vanguard.

    Vanguard, like Fidelity and Schwab, has its list of NTF funds. It charges TFs on only some funds outside of its own.

    A difference of note is that Vanguard, like Merrill, T. Rowe Price, and others charges TFs for sales as well as for purchases, while Fidelity and Schwab charge only for purchases. Not important for DCA'ing, but important in the drawdown phase.

    https://investor.vanguard.com/client-benefits/brokerage-fees-commissions
    https://www.merrilledge.com/pricing
    https://www.troweprice.com/personal-investing/accounts/brokerage/commissions-and-fees.html
  • edited February 15
    msf said:

    FWIW, my account was an IRA (good guess!). I closed it several years ago but the Firstrade still lets me log in though not trade, obviously. So I can pull up some info like this but cannot do things like test trades to see what happens.

    Brokerages are often free to set their own mins. It's pretty well known that one can get institutional class shares with lower mins at many brokerages (typically with a TF). It works the other way, too. Sometimes brokerages set mins above the prospectus min. For example, many brokerages set a $100K min for RPHIX even though the prospectus requires only $50K.

    Firstrade is just following the propsectus for MRFOX. $10K min for regular accounts, $1K for IRAs.
    https://doc.morningstar.com/docdetail.aspx?ticker=MRFOX

    The issue I have with Schwab's fee is that it applies to every purchase. I'm willing to pay the 49.95 basis point charge ($49.95 on $10K) one time to get access to an institutional share class of some fund that saves me 25 basis points per year with its lower ER. I'm a long term investor.

    But I don't want to do that repeatedly with incremental investments. Fidelity's $5 "side door" - adding smaller amounts via auto-invest - makes the initial fee tolerable. (OTOH, Schwab offers funds with lower mins and seems to have a wider assortment.)


    Thanks. May I ask why you closed Firstrade? Antiquated system but does offer a number of mutual funds institutional class without charge.


  • msf
    edited February 15
    I opened an account in the early 2010s, for access to TGBAX when it was still a solid fund. It filled a small hole in my portfolio (foreign bonds). Firstrade was the only game in town where one could access the cheaper Advisor class shares with a small min. Firstrade charged $9.95/trade back then.

    Like much of the rest of the investing world, I abandoned TGBAX a few years later. No reason at the time to keep an empty account with Firstrade. Though I did like being able to walk into their office.

    Firstrade didn't go transaction fee free until 2018, after I'd left.
    https://www.firstrade.com/press/pr180824
  • edited February 17
    Once upon a time, Wellstarde had access to many I share funds that were not available at Fidelity and Schwab + zero fees, but it wasn't a guarantee to be executed.
    It was fun for a while for several of us until most/all left their terrible customer service and unreliable system.
    It was great to get in for FREE and hold lower ER funds forever and then transfer them.
    I left VG pretty early, within 1-2 years, and transferred everything to Fidelity. Everything was great, I found Schwab by mistake. My employer allowed us to use Schwab as part of our 401K. I found a great competitor.
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