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Medallion guaranty: question

I had to do this just yesterday. I wonder whether the wonderful people at my CU are understanding the requirements and procedures correctly?

My wife still works, I don't. I had her sign it at the house, and I was going to have to go down there anyhow, so I would sign the damn form while they eyeballed me doing it. I was told that she would have to appear in person, and she'd sign a blank sheet, just so they could compare. ..... OK. Pain in the ass. But it is technically required, since it's a joint account.

Here is the purpose of the Medallion: we want to assign, by direct deposit, our proceeds from SFGIX to go straight into a different credit union account--- not the credit union where this stuff is being done.

So, OK. They can do Medallions up to $100,000 there, I was told. Great, I said, cuz this business will amount to maybe $200.00 per YEAR. But, but, but, they said: we need a STATEMENT showing that this will be less than $100,000.00.

Wait, now. Lemme get this straight. I'm not moving anything NEAR $100,000.00. OK, but we need that statement to prove it. (And I said to myself, wouldn't they want that sort of thing from the RECIPIENT rather than the source? In which case I'd have been screwed anyhow, because that other credit union account, where the money is supposed to go, is rather new. I have no statement at all from them, yet.)

But anyhow: what good does it do to show that my mutual fund account holds less than $100,000.00??? I could funnel all sorts of stuff through there on any given day, anyhow????? Even if the account held more than $100,000.00, the CU can offer the Medallion UP TO $100,000.00. It seems to me that the item which ought to be their focus is the amount of the transaction between the mutual fund and that other credit union. (???)

Or maybe I should once and for all quit thinking than anything, anywhere is supposed to make any sense?
Anyone here know about this junk?

Comments

  • Err...sorry for stupid question. Shouldn't moving money out of fund into Credit Union account be a simple ACH transaction?
  • edited April 2018
    It depends. My account statement had my first name transposed. My bank wanted all types of ID as well as the current value of stock in the statement. I told them the value was less than a certain amount and they did not need to see it. In the end, the bank rep would not sign off. I went to my local CU and explained the same problem. Took the CU rep 5 minutes to stamp it.

    Depends on the institution and the person you get and what they may ask for.

    From the ABA or American Banking Association:

    https://www.aba.com/aba/documents/securities/Medallion_procedures.pdf

    https://www.aba.com/aba/documents/securities/Comparison_Notary_Signature_Medallion_Stamps.pdf


  • Err...sorry for stupid question. Shouldn't moving money out of fund into Credit Union account be a simple ACH transaction?

    Yup, but the wonderful folks at Seafarer required the Medallion.
  • It's been a while but I think many of these procedures are driven by requirements to make sure they're not involved in money laundering. The simplest way to do that is to create draconian procedures that essentially put as much of the burden on the customer as possible and provide a lot of room for employees to use any judgment.
  • @TheShadow "It depends..." You may have just proved my point.
  • LLJB said:

    It's been a while but I think many of these procedures are driven by requirements to make sure they're not involved in money laundering. The simplest way to do that is to create draconian procedures that essentially put as much of the burden on the customer as possible and provide a lot of room for employees to use any judgment.

    "...draconian....." Yup. And you have just corroborated my rant in the other thread, too (TD Amer.)
  • If SFGIX were held at a brokerage and the dividends/ST/LT gains (taken in cash) settled intp a cash account within that brokerage account you could then easily ACH'd these proceeds to your bank account of choice. Yes?
  • bee said:

    If SFGIX were held at a brokerage and the dividends/ST/LT gains (taken in cash) settled intp a cash account within that brokerage account you could then easily ACH'd these proceeds to your bank account of choice. Yes?

    Well, I dunno. I guess you're telling me it WOULD be the case? I own SFGIX retail, by myself (and in this case with my wife. JTWROS.) No broker.
  • beebee
    edited April 2018
    I hold SFGIX at a brokerage (USAA NTF) and this is the case. I have all gains settle as cash within this brokerage account (in a MMF) and when I need the cash I move it ACH to my non-brokerage account (checking account at a different institution).

    So long as both accounts (brokerage and checking) are JTWROS I don't see the problem.

    I only mention this because you may have many funds at many individual institutions which could be housed at one or two brokerage houses. This simplifies your life and your survivor's life. I have three brokerage houses and only one fund that doesn't participate on any brokerage platforms (BRUFX @ Bruce Fund).
  • edited April 2018
    @bee OK, thanks. That makes sense. The lion's share of my stuff is in TRP, retail. Small amounts elsewhere. SFGIX, PTIAX (soon,) MAPOX, and wife's current and active 403b, Vanguard (through MassMutual) VSCIX. I suppose I WILL go with a broker after the move, and consolidate. Simplify. Tell me more about USAA. My dad was a Marine. Died in 2000. Am I eligible? Navy Fed let me in. And they just told me that a simple stock/bond trading facility, without the need to enroll in an "advice for beginners" program they already offer--- "may soon be coming." You're happy with USAA? What about fees?
  • ---Bank Secrecy Act (1970)....the BSA introduction, bank tellers had to process forms for any transaction over $9,999 and place the document with the transaction.

    https://www.occ.treas.gov/topics/compliance-bsa/bsa/index-bsa.html

    ---Patriot Act + (2001)
    https://www.sec.gov/about/offices/ocie/amlsourcetool.htm

    In the most broad form, U.S. banks/CU's and other Federal guide lined institutions have had to compile with some of all of the BSA of 1970 and the Patriot Act of 2001; as well as addendum's/additional. Many branches of official government agencies are involved, including the Security and Exchange Commission.
    The legal requirements are way past my pay scale, but be it enough stated that all forms of money transfers must meet qualifications from one or more agencies.
    The Patriot Act caused new wording for opening an IRA account to be included with the owners sign-off. Many financial areas have been affected. I am not familiar with the process described in this post.
    Lastly........yup, one is going to come up against those who are less informed than others for certain procedures. And no, I am not an authority with this; but understand many legal aspects arise with money moves.

    Broad Patriot Act/mutual funds search
  • So, ya. Just as I figured.
  • edited April 2018
    Just skimming the varied responses - all well informed.

    D&C still requires these when transferring funds by mail directly to another institution - at least they did a couple years ago.

    They’ve gotten progressively more of a pain to obtain over the years. Bet bet is try 2 or 3 different local institutions where you do business. Some are paranoid and require all sorts of documentation. Some simply make and retain a copy of the paperwork. Occasionally you’ll find one that provides the needed medallion guarantee completely pain free.

    I did stomp out of one office a couple years ago (and later cancel my account there) rather than provide the onerous documentation demanded. Her gig wasn’t the Patriot Act. Rather it was that she had read an article about a bank official who had been forced to compensate an injured party for “millions of dollars” after a signature guarantee was used in a fraudulent manner (although my paperwork showed I was only moving $3,000).

    PS - Yes, the agent does need to witness the signature. So in your case both signees would need to be present as I understand it.
  • From this attached article:
    Two routes to USAA

    You can take part in USAA products even if you don’t qualify for membership. You can still use the investment services that USAA offers, you can purchase life insurance from USAA, and you’re eligible to use their discounts (which I’ll cover in the next article); however, if you don’t qualify for membership, you’re not eligible for the auto, property, and other insurance products, and you cannot use the banking products.
    Article (3 parts):
    https://hullfinancialplanning.com/are-you-eligible-for-usaa-membership/
  • Thanks, @bee. Although I can't connect with that link. I guess Firefox decided to block it. I'll go back to the website and investigate.
  • A medallion guarantee is like a cashiers check. The financial institution is putting its neck on the line to honor whatever is being guaranteed. It sounds like you're asking them go guarantee periodic, unknown amounts of money. So they want your assurance that these "blank checks" won't be for more than $100,000, as silly as that amount seems to you.

    With some of this nonsense, I've found it's easier to go through the motions than to argue about it. The most absurd recent example I can think of is getting dividends from an outside fund (registered in my name alone) automatically deposited into a joint account at my brokerage (with my name being one of the owners). The outside fund insisted that the other owner of the receiving account sign with medallion guarantee.

    Once the money hits the joint account, why should the fund care what happens to it? The transfer is complete. Pointless to argue. I even commented about it when I got the guarantees. The response was to the effect: Yeah, some places are quirky that way, this isn't unusual.

  • edited April 2018
    Medallion gurantee question: Answer

    The below link might be of interest as it explains the medallion gurantee vs. notary stamp along with the different amounts a medallion gurantee might cover plus what financial institutions might require to affix the stamp.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medallion_signature_guarantee
  • edited April 2018
    Here is the link I was looking for (124 pages PDF) from the Securities Transfer Association:

    http://stai.org/pdfs/109721-sta-guidelines-book-rev-1.pdf
  • Judas Priest.
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