Is 2023 the time to wade back into bond funds? Thoughts? In my circumstances, munis don't make sense. For a few different reasons, I'll be adding bonds to my taxable account. I've already got a slug of bonds in the IRA. I want to track the new TUHYX twin, the new ETF: it's THYF, before throwing money at it. Lots of options available. There's a strange contradiction about TUHYX, when I look at what Morningstar offers. Granted, Morningstar is not gospel, and there are many other sources to turn to. Anyhow, Morningstar rates it with 2 stars and with a SILVER decoration. On the surface, it looks not bad.... HIGH marks for the "Process/People/Parent" wonky categories, too. But then they show it at the bottom for '22 among peers. 2018 was some sort of watershed for the fund, probably a change in style or mandate. Since then, there have been three pretty good years, bookended by two awful years. Still, the dividends remain juicy. Can the share price still be falling much? Are we at the nadir? Different opinions about that sort of thing are what makes a Market........ At the moment, I'm looking at Schwab's TIPS ETF. (SCHP.)
Is 2023 the time to wade back into bond funds? Thoughts? I will invest hugely in bond OEFs in 2023, as I have done in the last several
years.
But, I must see an uptrend to be invested. I think 2023 will be a good year.
You can make several % more in managed bond fund, this is where they shine. Think DODIX for higher rated bonds, HY Munis and good Multi (where I find my best ideas).
I made 9.7% in 2022, mostly in 3 HY munis trades. See ORNAX (
chart). The 3 trades were several days in May + July and several weeks in Nov. All are based on T/A.
Is 2023 the time to wade back into bond funds? Thoughts? I had an investment with Dodge a number of years ago, but left when they carried a heavy load of financial & got toasted in 07-08 .
Yes
@Derf. I remember it well.
The last thing I would ever do is try to steer anyone into any particular fund. But I like to note that DODBX’s track record extends clear back to the 1930s. Longevity - if not consistent performance!
Thanks for the comments.
Is 2023 the time to wade back into bond funds? Thoughts? Thanks for the reply
@hank . I had an investment with Dodge a number of
years ago, but left when they carried a heavy load of financial & got toasted in 07-08 .
Is 2023 the time to wade back into bond funds? Thoughts? @hank ; I see DODBX had a rather large CG !
Added : Have you held this fund as a long term hold, say over ten
years ?
Umm CG? Is that something good?
I’ve owned DODBX for about 20
years - the same amount of time I’ve been with D&C. It’s just one of several of their different funds I’ve used from time to time over those
years. So the amount in DODBX has waxed and waned over time. Presently it serves as the major part of the “growth” portion of my portfolio. Yes - it contains bonds too, but those have rarely accounted for as much as 30% of the fund.
Hope I’ve addressed the thirst of your question adequately
@Derf
Is 2023 the time to wade back into bond funds? Thoughts? @hank ; I see DODBX had a rather large CG !
Added : Have you held this fund as a long term hold, say over ten
years ?
What helped and what hurt in 2022 Many moves made in late 2021 that helped/distracted this year.
1. Sold all bond funds to stable value, CDs, T bills and money market (just as we need 529 fund for our kids in college)
2. Bought commodity futures and energy and sold half of it last month
3. Sold all EM funds and bought conservative value overseas funds
4. Rotated from growth to value funds as value lagged for so many years (sheer dumb luck).
5. Reduced loss with dividend growth funds
5. Alternatives were flat.
6. Precious metals were flat in light of high inflation. Bitcoins must attracted the $.
For the year, we have a negative single digit loss. Hopefully we are in good position to do better in 2023.
What helped and what hurt in 2022 What worked was alternative funds. Had members exchanged their balanced funds either three
years ago or just one year ago for REMIX, in the first instance, or PAEGX in the second, they would be crowing about their gains.
@LewisBraham was spot-on to point to PGAEX in June of '22 as a fund worth watching. That fund has made money for its entire short existence and with a very steady climb. BLNDX/REMIX was profiled by
@DavidSnowball back in 2019 as an alternative fund that promised to deliver. It did so, but the ride was rough at certain junctures.
I did not get out of my balanced funds (JBALX, PRSIX, BRUFX) all at once or soon enough, so I did not see great gains from my REMIX stake. However, I do not have losses for 2022.
Is 2023 the time to wade back into bond funds? Thoughts? Volatility in 3 years… particularly during the beginning of pandemic in March 2020. It rebounded strongly after Powell cut the rate. Nevertheless it showed the magnitude of drawdown.
I am watching carefully and have pared back some BL/FR funds. Question is what can Giruox do with a such large asset fund. Right now, he is holding some treasuries, perhaps as a hedge in case things get back. He stated I several interviews that US market is strong fundamentally and we will not in a recession.
Is 2023 the time to wade back into bond funds? Thoughts? LB's article in Barron's looks at pros and cons of FR/BL.
Keep in mind that FR/BL are a subclass of HY and their rate resetting mechanism works fine when rates are rising or stable. If rates start declining, or economy finds itself in recession, then they will be hit hard like other HY. Davis Giroux runs a capital appreciation fund PRWCX with some exposure to credit spreads and he won't be doing B&H for FR/BL.
Fido FFRHX, 1-yr (default). Switch to 3+
years to see volatility.
https://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=FFRHX&p=D&yr=1&mn=0&dy=0&id=p80706396341
Is 2023 the time to wade back into bond funds? Thoughts? @MikeM, are we reading the same Barron article by LewisBraham. One I read is “
Floating-Rate Loan Funds Have Promise—and Hidden Risks” and David Giruox was part of the interview. If that is the case, I came away with a different interpretation from yours on bonds in which risk is higher today with bank loan funds than previous
years.
BONDS, HIATUS ..... March 24, 2023 Thanks
@Catch22From Whitman:
“The ship has weather’d every rack …” Owning bonds / bond funds felt like “bow-shock” aboard ship or plane all year long. The talking heads and market gurus I monitor mostly speak optimistically of a splendid 2023 for longer dated bonds. In particular, Rick Rieder of Blackrock appears to have trouble “containing” himself during interviews on this point. We shall see. I had plans to pull some $$ from PRIHX about now after having held it 3
years or more. But stinks so badly now that I won’t touch it. I’ll let the money “ferment” longer (like fine wine) and hopefully recoup this year’s losses some day.
You really need a sense of humor to invest today. :)
Riverpark Short Term High Yield - divs and availability They settle on a relatively consistent, usually conservative monthly distribution early in the year, with the result that most years, there's excess income to distribute at the end of the year.This is by design. Many CEFs including PDI have a managed distribution policy. It's a little hard to see this in the prospectus, but it is there.
Closed-end fund managed distribution programs are designed to facilitate regular, relatively consistent distributions to shareholders, typically by:
- Estimating a fund’s long-term total return (both income and long-term appreciation, net of expenses)
- Setting a regular monthly or quarterly distribution amount intended to match the fund’s total distributions to its total return over time
https://www.nuveen.com/en-us/insights/closed-end-funds/understanding-managed-distributionsFrom the
PDI prospectus:
The Fund makes regular monthly cash distributions to Common Shareholders at a rate based upon the past and projected net income of the Fund. Subject to applicable law, the Fund may fund a portion of its distributions with gains from the sale of portfolio securities and other sources. The Fund’s dividend policy, as well as the dividend rate that the Fund pays on its Common Shares, may vary as portfolio and market conditions change, and will depend on a number of factors.
RPHYX/ RPHIX doesn't manage its distributions. Generally, what you see (earn as income) is what you get (as income divs).
----
David Sherman's CrossingBridge Pre-Merger SPAC ETF, ticker SPC, also gave a .24/share distribution yesterday. Nice Christmas present from these 2 holdings.I hadn't taken a close look at SPC. Interesting fund. Follows Sherman's RPHYX approach of investing in "remnants", but in a different pool ("money good" SPACs, i.e. ones "
trading at par value or at a discount" ).
These divs come out of NAV, unlike divs in funds that declare divs daily. Whether the fund sells more assets to pay a larger div, or the shareholder sells shares to generate the same cash flow, the effect is the same.
This is why I prefer to focus on total return. Though I do understand that receiving a dividend (especially a large one) "automatically" somehow feels different.
Riverpark Short Term High Yield - divs and availability Pimco has a habit of making special December income distributions, larger than the previous months' in their OEFs and CEFs (maybe their ETFs too, don't have much experience with them). They settle on a relatively consistent, usually conservative monthly distribution early in the year, with the result that most years, there's excess income to distribute at the end of the year. No idea if that's what's at work w/ Riverpark.
Two Pimco examples from this year: PDI had a consistent 0.2205 income distribution through the year and then issued a special income distribution of 0.65 Dec 27; PIMIX (which somewhat uncharacteristically boosted the monthly twice during the year) put out a special income distribution of 0.1036 the same day.
I'd guess that funds with shorter durations (and/or high turnover) during a period of rising rates might tend to land in that situation -- as they replace lower yielding securities with higher yielding ones.
Dividend Paying with Funds Does any one have suggested Dividends that are good buys either quarterly or monthly by companies who has paid them for many years. Thank you so much.
Ron Dombcik