In response to several comments above:
I have been a DIY investor until about two years ago. I did try the Charles Schwab robo-advisor. I have been using both Fidelity and Vanguard for decades and like them both for different reasons. I now use the Fidelity Wealth Services and Vanguard Personal Advisor Service Select.
For clarification, Vanguard Advisor Services are:
1) Robo Advisor Services with a minimum of $3,000:
https://investor.vanguard.com/advice/robo-advisor
2) Personal Advisor Services which is a hybrid robo advisor with a minimum of $50,000 and team of advisors. Cost is 0.35%:
https://investor.vanguard.com/advice/personal-hybrid-robo-advisor
3) Personal Advisor Services with a minimum of $500,000 and a personal certified financial planner/fiduciary in addition to the team. Cost is 0.3%:
https://investor.vanguard.com/advice/personal-financial-advisor
Fidelity Wealth Management fees are listed as 0.50%–1.50% with a minimum of $250,000. The more you have them manage the more your fees fall.
I invested the minimums to get a personal advisor and to lower my fees.
With regards to objectively evaluating the funds and services:
Whether you work with Fidelity or Vanguard, they will evaluate your goals and needs and propose an allocation (or range) and the funds. Both base their recommendations on the long term, but Fidelity also adjusts based on the business cycle. You can make changes within their criteria and policies. I entered the funds and allocation into the MFO Portfolio Tool to evaluate them. With Vanguard Advisor funds being only 1.7 years old there is not much history to go on. Vanguard has the option to select the percent of active and passive funds.
With a dual income household, we have multiple accounts with different tax characteristics. Our advisory service ranges from 50% stocks to 70% based on my input.
With regards to performance:
It does take a leap of faith to use an advisory service. There is evidence that individual investors tend to underperform the markets because they tend to panic, trade too much, or be too conservative. I did take the leap of faith based on my experiences with both Fidelity and Vanguard.
My primary objective is to set my wife up with a financial advisor in case I pass away before her. Mission accomplished. The surprising thing is that I feel a burden is lifted and more relaxed. I still have accounts that I manage myself.

Don't let names of services confuse you. PAS at Vanguard and PAS at Fidelity are two different animals. PAS at Vanguard is a hybrid robo advisor, similar to Fidelity's GO (assuming AUM of at least $25K). Fidelity defines the service this way:

A hybrid robo advisor typically refers to a robo advisor that includes access to investment adviser representatives, whether via telephone or in person. In the case of Fidelity Go®, we combine our digital offering with access to 1-on-1 financial planning and coaching via telephone for clients that invest at least $25,000 in a Fidelity Go account.

https://www.fidelity.com/managed-accounts/fidelity-go/overview
The cost of Fidelity GO is 35 basis points/year. But the account uses Fidelity Flex funds, which have ERs of 0.00%. Vanguard's PAS uses Vanguard funds. So the all-in costs of these two services should be similar.
Fidelity's older PAS service uses proprietary and third party funds. It is model based but not robo-based. The last time I looked at it many years ago, it tended to throw a gazillion funds into a portfolio, perhaps because it could, perhaps because that gave the impression that it was doing something. In any case, this is not the same type of service as Fidelity GO or Vanguard PAS.
https://www.fidelity.com/managed-accounts/overview
https://www.fidelity.com/wealth-management/investment-management-services
FIdelity has so many fee schedules that it's hard to find the one you're looking at. Their fees are different for Fidelity-preferred portfolios, "blended" (no preference) portfolios, and index fund portfolios. Regardless, PAS services do cost much more than hybrid robo services, whether at Fidelity or elsewhere.

@lynnbolin2021
Thanks again for the hard work on all this.
Am I correct that you have advisory accounts at both Fido and Vang?
Do you still have significant % in the other fund strategies you have written so much about? If so I assume those accounts are completely separate from the PAS
It appears Fido wants you to pick an individual advisor to use from their long list, while Vanguard assigns someone to you after you go through their allocation questionnaire. Is this accurate?
Have you found their "financial planning " process useful?

FWIW
I looked into Fidelity's service. I am sure Lynn knows more about it than I found in an hour or so of searching around, and I would be interested in his experience.
Using what appears to be their fee schedule, Fido is much more expensive than Vanguard. They charge 1.25 % on the first $500,000. on a $6,000,000 account even with the declining fees, the total works out to 0.46% vs Vanguards flat 0.3%. To get pricing similar to Vanguard's it looks like you need to have $10 million in total investable assets or net worth.
There is little discussion of how they pick investments, as it is all managed in house by their advisors. A quick look down the line of folks offered up to help does not indicate they are anything special. Without a personal recommendation from someone you trust with experience at Fidelity, you are probably just as well off with a robot!
It does not appear that either place offers financial planning or asset allocation advice without committing to investment management.

A program isn't a fiduciary. The RIAs (Registered Investment Advisors) are fiduciaries.
So, a RIA handling PAS (or other financial stuff) will be a fiduciary. The RIAs need Series 65, or Series 7 + 66, exam(s).
A call center employee (needing only minimal training) or broker or insurance agent handling PAS won't be. Brokers only need Series 7 exam. Insurance agents need relevant insurance exam(s).
The financial industry is trying to fuzzy things up by also creating Regulation Best-Interest (Reg BI) for the non-RIAs, something in between the requirements/standards for brokers and RIAs. It isn't just practical or possible for everybody to qualify for RIAs overnight.

Hi @SMA3,
Taxes are complex and the tax preparer knows the taxes best. With companies like Fidelity and Vanguard, I suspect that an investor will be dealing mostly with an external tax accountant. My experiences are that the tax accountant will not be familiar with the implications of Medicare on taxes. This is an area where I find an investor will benefit from financial literacy and double check on advice given. I have not dealt with independent financial planners that may be a one stop shop?
Regarding financial convictions and disclosures, an employee was convicted in 2019 of theft:
"The total amount of the funds that the defendant stole exceeded $2.1 million. To Vanguard’s credit, all individual accounts were made whole after the defendant’s crimes were detected."
https://www.justice.gov/usao-edpa/pr/former-vanguard-employee-sentenced-four-years-fraud-scheme
The disclosures from the SEC are mostly minor:
https://files.adviserinfo.sec.gov/IAPD/content/viewform/adv/Sections/iapd_AdvDrpSection.aspx?ORG_PK=105958&FLNG_PK=005984D6000801D203A190C104921F01056C8CC0#Regulatory
Lynn

August 12,2023 Episode:

Investing can be simple and accessible to the average person, says financial thought leader and economist Burton Malkiel. Malkiel, author of the investment classic “A Random Walk Down Wall Street,” has 50 years of research to back up his claim.

@Junkster- Right on. Because we have more than enough income from SS and pensions to live on, our main requirement for our financial assets is safety, not growth, particularly. The current financial environment is perfect for that, with Treasury/CD/MMKT rates high enough to reasonably offset inflation. That allows peace of mind and extra time and resources to take precautions about what we eat, our weight, blood pressure, and sugar and cholesterol/triglycerides levels.
Since we are fortunate enough to still be reasonable healthy in our 80s, it seems prudent to watch those factors in order to be able to remain healthy and enjoy life. Don't have to take all the fun out of eating- just keep sugar, salt, fat and other bad stuff down to a reasonable level.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/926678/000119312523208784/d538281d497.htm
497 1 d538281d497.htm 497
BRANDES INVESTMENT TRUST
Brandes U.S. Value Fund
Supplement dated August 10, 2023
to the Fund’s Summary Prospectus and Prospectus dated January 28, 2023
and the Statement of Additional Information dated January 28, 2023
Brandes Investment Partners, L.P., the Advisor to the Brandes U.S. Value Fund (the “Fund”), has recommended, and the Board of Trustees of Brandes Investment Trust has approved, the liquidation and termination of the Fund. The Advisor’s recommendation was primarily based on the fact that the Fund is not economically viable at its present size, and the Advisor did not anticipate that the Fund would experience meaningful growth in the foreseeable future. The liquidation is expected to occur after the close of business on September 28, 2023. Pending liquidation of the Fund, investors will continue to be able to reinvest dividends received in the Fund.
Effective August 17, 2023, the Fund will no longer accept purchases of new shares. Beginning September 25, 2023, the Fund’s assets will be converted into cash and cash equivalents, as a result the Fund will no longer pursue its stated investment objective and policies effective September 25, 2023. Shareholders of the Fund may redeem their investments as described in the Fund’s Prospectus. Accounts not redeemed by September 20, 2023, will automatically be closed and liquidating distributions, less any required tax withholdings, will be sent to the address of record.
If you hold your shares in an IRA account directly with Northern Trust Company, you have 60 days from the date you receive your proceeds to reinvest your proceeds into another IRA account and maintain their tax-deferred status. You must notify the Fund or your financial advisor prior to September 28, 2023 of your intent to reinvest your IRA account to avoid withholding deductions from your proceeds.
Please contact the Fund at (800) 395-3807 or your financial advisor if you have questions or need assistance.
This Supplement should be retained for future reference.

We know that compounding on investments made early in one’s lifetime makes a huge difference in one’s financial success. Even though I was a very low earner when I started my career in 1970, we still were able to buy a house in 1973 based on my income alone. Interest rates were around 4%. I borrowed the 5% down payment from my father. My employer, despite paying me a pittance, paid 10% into my retirement account at TIAA. With one kid, one starter home, one car, and a frugality drummed into us by our Depression-era parents, we eventually realized quite amazing gains on what we honestly did not know would become our sources of “wealth.”
In today’s economy, as @Anna aptly points out, the young couple setting out on a path similar to ours, face overwhelming obstacles. The price of a starter home, in almost any part of the country, now presents the biggest barrier, to say nothing of the huge down payment. What employer these days would be paying 10% of base salary into retirement? It seems trite to say that our kids won’t do as well as their parents, a complete reversal of what had been accepted wisdom about the American economy. The American Dream, for a great many of our brethren, is nothing more than a chimera. The participants on MFO, IMHO, have a whole lot to be grateful for. I’m not sure that my kids, who are between 25 and 43, will be able to feel secure in their retirements.

If the other shoe is dropping, it would be interesting to know if anyone here changed their investments based on that.

The shoe never stopped dropping. People just took their eye off it while AI animated the reporting of the financial press on Mr. Market's animal spirits.
Bank CD's, money markets, or T-Bills have been a constant topic of conversation here for the past few months. Some people here seem to be tweaking their short-term investments on a regular basis; and in line with their own needs, and perceptions of risk. Count me in that crowd.
Moody's report should not surprise anyone that has taken cash out of a bank deposit,or CD, and put it someplace else that pays a higher rate, or offers a competitive rate with more flexibility.

By Nick Maggiulli
Of Dollars And Data focuses on personal finance using data analysis. Nick Maggiulli is the Chief Operating Officer for Ritholtz Wealth Management LLC.
Why Income is the Key to Financial Success

Moody's downgraded the credit of several regional banks, citing rising costs and the troubled commercial real estate sector.

It’s been about five months since Silicon Valley Bank and Signature Bank collapsed. Shortly afterward, First Republic folded. But since then, things have been relatively calm in the banking world.
That is, until this week.
The ratings agency Moody’s announced that it downgraded the credit ratings of several regional banks, citing problems related to rising interest rates and troubled loan portfolios. A lot of the problems in the banking sector that emerged earlier this year haven’t gone away.
One big issue Moody’s cited is bank deposits. That’s because rising interest rates have put pressure on banks to prevent customers from pulling their money out.
“In order to keep those deposits, they have to pay more,” said Ana Arsov, Moody’s co-head of bank ratings.
Deposits started falling about a year ago. But after banks announced their second-quarter financial results last month, Arsov said, it became clear that their source of funding for loans is still strained.
“We believe that the system is relatively stable, but those funding strains will continue,” she said.
Moody’s also said a lot of regional banks could run into trouble with their commercial real estate loans, since many borrowers aren’t producing revenue from all the offices that are still sitting vacant.
“The smaller banks tend to have more of that local footprint, so that makes them a little bit more susceptible to commercial real estate and commercial office space as well,” said Stephen Biggar, a bank analyst with Argus Research.
Biggar said banks are well aware that some of those loans could go bad. And they have been taking steps to prepare: “Adding more to loan loss provisions and doing more to the credit underwriting to make them less susceptible to future problems in that area.”
Regulators have stepped in too, with proposals meant to make the banking sector healthier overall.
But regulators aren’t likely to impose new rules that quickly, said Kathryn Judge, a law professor at Columbia.
“Generally speaking, you don’t want to force banks to undergo significant and costly changes during periods of time when credit is less available,” Judge said.
She said this week’s downgrades are a sign that that period of time is going to last a while, even though dramatic bank failures, like those earlier this year, are likely behind us. “We’ve instead shifted to the mode of the turmoil that is more of a slow burn, where the various challenges that these banks are facing continue to persist.”
That means regional banks will keep paying more interest to depositors and lending out less of their deposits.
Justin Ho reported this story from Vista, California.

@wabac,
You raised good points. A portfolio can have several goals. Performance is always important. But, I also think that risk-adjusted performance is more important, at least for me, and that can be measured by the Sharpe ratio.
The following are several simple measurements I set for myself
1) My stock portion must beat the easiest most common index VOO/VTI. If I don't beat it, my stock portion must have a better risk-adjusted performance.
2) My bond portion should beat good bond funds, starting with BND and DODIX.
3) If I have 50/50, must beat W+W (Wellington, Wellesley)
4) For a conservative portfolio, must beat Wellesley.
The above is just a start, a minimum. I also know about great funds over the years, such as PRWCX and PIMIX.
I'm very critical of my own portfolio. It's all data-driven. No excuses are allowed. It doesn't matter if you use 3 or 10-15 funds, or how you do it.
Suppose I want to set up an easy buy and hold portfolio for a retiree, see below 2 real-life examples.
1) In order to make my wife's investment decisions easier, I set up a written plan for her to invest in only 3 funds. I only trust 2 choices indexes + Vanguard funds managed by Wellington. Wellington Management is the oldest, it's conservative, team style, and not one dominant manager, with a very cheap expense ratio. Since our money isn't with Vanguard, we would have to own the more expensive funds(not Admiral), but it's still cheap.
For a younger age, until age 70-75 and still having a taxable account...45% VWINX...25% VWAHX(HY Muni)...30% VSMGX. Because of HY Muni bonds which are hybrid, this portfolio is more like 40/60
Older than 70-75 or taxable account is gone: 40% VWINX(40/60)...30% VWEHX(HY Corp)...30% VSMGX(60/40). Because of HY Corp bonds which are hybrid, this portfolio is more like 45/55.
2) An older relative retired around 2002 and told me he saw several financial advisors and they want to charge him 1% and he really doesn't trust any of them. Markets are volatile and he wants a stable LT simple portfolio and all his money is at Vanguard. Based on the amount of money he had, he needed about 3.5% yearly withdrawal and wants a conservative portfolio. I told him he can be in just 35-40% stocks and the rest bond and to invest in just 2 funds VWIAX+VCCGX. If he needs more money, just sell shares from both funds at equal amount of money. Just keep several thousands in the bank, use your SS and distributions from these 2 funds and if you require more just sell shares from both at 70/30 (VWIAX+VCCGX).
In the first 10-15 years, this guy called me every 2-3 years and thanked me how I saved him so much money and how it works well.
Below are the results(link)including 3.5% annual withdrawal, and they show that KISS investing and spending worked very well. This portfolio was able to support the 3.5% and grow at 6% (including the 3.5% withdrawal).

@FD - Personal offense? None. But thanks. I appreciate the sentiment.
From your latest linked article - Why Average Investors Earn Below-Average Market Returns :
“Investor behavior is illogical and often based on emotion. That does not lead to wise long-term investing decisions.”
Yes. That’s pretty widely known and has been discussed here before. But it says nothing regarding your earlier (unsupported) assertion, “I have seen a lot more investors who lag the market when they own more funds, I mean over 5-7 funds.”
In addition to the obvious disconnect between what you asserted earlier and what your linked article says, let’s recognize a few relevant facts.
- “Average investors” includes all those with workplace defined contribution plans. That’s a lot of people who may have little or no investment interest or experience. And it includes all ages, from young adults buying their first home to folks with 50+ years investing experience. Lately, too, it has come to include the thrill-seeking “meme” crowd with little regard for fundamentals. All these and more fall within the realm of ”average investor”.
- “Average investors” don’t frequent investment forums like this one. Can’t speak for wherever else you’ve been, but this community represents a select slice of the investing public. Participants possess above average intelligence, are well read and highly motivated. Some have professional backgrounds in finance or financial journalism.
- To your initial assertion about number of funds … . I will contend that 8-10 high quality funds along the lines of PRWCX or JHQAX should perform as well on average as 1 or 2 equally high quality ones. The number of funds alone does not determine whether one “beats the index.” The overall quality of those holdings may.
- Indexes carry no cash reserve as funds do. So they have a built-in advantage actively managed portfolios do not possess.. “Tit-for-tat” active will underperform an index.
- Not all investors want to track or match the S&P’s performance. Some of us are pleased we didn’t lose 18% last year. We’ll sacrifice some future return if it means avoiding such dramatic 1-year losses.
- Your criticism of owning more than 5-7 funds misses the point that many investors manage several portfolios. I have a Roth, Traditional IRA, and Taxable account. Each is viewed in a different time-frame and tax perspective. Some have long-term portfolios, mid-range ones and short term investments for more immediate needs. Some manage for a spouse. Some have limited-option workplace plans - plus other outside investments.
Thanks for the linked article. But, since it contained nothing I didn’t already know, I checked the “not helpful” box at the end.

+1 old joe Maybe FD is short for Financial Demagogue or Dork !

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Selecting the best mutual funds to achieve long-term financial goals remains a challenging task for investors. Russel Kinnel, Director of Manager Research for Morningstar, has dedicated nearly three decades to this endeavor. He oversees Morningstar’s North American Morningstar analyst ratings committees, responsible for vetting the prestigious Morningstar medalist ratings frequently cited in the financial world.
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Thanks @dtconroe,
Hope both of us are alive & well in 15 years.
Worth noting that money market funds back in the 70s and up to the 2007-09 financial crisis were less regulated and, while quite safe, took on more risk than they can today. So those 15-20% rates are a bit over-stated. Apples to oranges.
Doubt I’ll ever succumb to going all to cash. Admittedly, that would have been the smart move 18-20 months ago before the bottom fell out of equities. I enjoy investing and tracking a widely diversified portfolio too much to give it up (a “fool’s errand” perhaps). But the bumps in the road are getting harder to ride out with age.

“ … in my lifetime as an investor, I haven’t seen cash yields this high ”
Gosh, I do remember earning 15-20% on money market funds during my early working years. :)
Along with that, the aisles in grocery stores (1970s) were often filled with store employees busy changing the previously marked prices to try and keep up with the ongoing increases. Without bar codes / scanners every bottle of ketchup or loaf of bread carried a marked price. One wonders if all this remarking itself contributed to the inflation rate.
No doubt. Cash at today’s 5% (+ -) looks very compelling, especially to the “over the hill” crowd.

I am also experiencing some degree of nostalgia with some of the recent posts, especially looking at the past 15 years. Around the 2000 to 2007 period, CDs were paying 5+% and I was shopping banks for the best CD rates and terms. Then the financial markets went into a crisis period, with banks closing, major business closings, and the government cutting rates, stimulating the economy, and trying to focus on financial stabilization and economic growth. I have never seen anything like the Covid years, supply chain and manufacturing disruptions, and the renewed fight against inflation in the last few years. 5+% CDs are back, we are fighting inflation again, but now I am in retirement, focused more on preservation of assets than accumulation of assets. I hope I am around for another 15 years so I can participate in investing philosophy, but the odds are that I will not be alive.