@WABAC and BenWP I've added to two other performance charts for different time frames when Value could have provided some 'head fakes'.
--- Chart line colors likely vary by device type; but my laptop, for my very good eyes show red, a lime green and blue. Also, one may hover a pointer over the graph line at any point to 'see' the name of the fund/etf.
VUG vs VTV vs SPY (a reference choice) This chart is for 2 years and covers the full years of 2022 and 2023.
This chart is for the beginning of the COVID period and covers the full years of 2020 and 2021.
'Course, I'm showing these as time frames for various periods which can cause any of us who may want to make decisions in 'real time'. A tough road, for sure. Being, is this investment area really a solid 'trend' and/or rotation?
BIAS NOTE: We've been mostly U.S. centric investors for many years and fully since the melt of 2008. This includes equity and bonds. We obtain small pieces of international exposure via U.S. fund holdings. The 'other' bias is that we've been oriented to growth. 'Course there have a few scary periods for growth investors.

ahh...so the lawfare didn't work...Orange Man still standing (ya, I'll give you so far anyways)...and how come no one on this board is writing about how Biden does not have the stamina nor cognition for the role...and who is really running the country..the Bolshie Ron Klain, Jill Biden? and their diversity pick for VP is obviously not competent either so therefore all the angst, no?
Biden's presidency has been a total and complete flop...everything from intentionally opening the border to illegals consisting of who knows whom, a disaster re foreign policy, wars, emboldening Iran, not negotiating effectively prior to Putin marching into Ukraine, inflation up the wazoo which continues, using lawfare against his political opponents, out of control crime (don't BS me with false statistics, reporting of serious crime has been downgraded for the optics and many blue cities don't even report to the FBI stats anymore), freebies on the taxpayers dime, reducing school debt for many who make decent monies, what about the plumbers who didn't go to school to chase skirts and drink beer and screw off for 5 years?...and watching the debate...who in their right mind would think he is capable of holding office right now, let alone in the future?

Sure, take out the engine of the world, and things will look different.
Value has been lagging for about 15 years now.
But one day.... :-)

It represents one form of relative performance of USA growth vs value stocks. Growth has trounced value as we all know but in market sell offs value holds up better. Where are we now in that growth vs value cycle? Not at the bottom.

Now that I can see all three lines, it looks to me like one Vanguard index has trounced another Vanguard index over five years spanning rapidly changing market conditions.
If I had bought VSMIX or GQEPX five years ago I would be ahead of VUG. There may be other examples of funds that have performed better over the last five years. Those are just two that are on my watch list. I'll admit that only one of those is a value fund.
If we were to look at the last three years, during which growth has been digging itself out of a very large hole, a number of funds in my watch list outperform VUG. Only two outperform IWY.
I spent the last year ditching Vanguard index funds.
Edit to add:
Did a larger search at MFO Premium. Add HIMDX to the list of three funds that beat VUG over five years. The interesting thing about HIMDX is that it is a quant fund. Wouldn't we like to see the inside of their black box?
But what if we went back three years? There are 20 value, or equity income, funds that are beating VUG.
What if we went back to the start of "Normalization 2" which is 202112? Then we get a much larger number of value and equity income funds that are still beating VUG's return of 7.5 over that time period. (Lipper categorizes some funds as value that M* sees as blend.)
People assume that growth will continue to beat value just because. But, as with comedy, timing is everything.

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away two young Jedi fought side by side against ...
Oh, right. Focus. Messrs. Samra and O'Keefe were fast rising stars analysts under David Herro at Harris Associates (i.e., the Oamark funds) together. They left Harris in 2002 over a disagreement concerning when they would be named partners. (Ed Studzinski, who was there at the time, sort of chronicled it in a 2018 essay.) They joined Artisan Partners and posted spectacular numbers running International Value together. They launched Global Value and put up spectacular numbers, all of which led to huge inflows. They were nominated six times as Morningstar's International manager of the year, and won the award twice. In 2018, they made a management decision to separate teams ... Mr. Samra would lead International Value, Mr. O'Keefe would lead Global Value.
Over the past five years, both have done well. It's just that in both absolute and relative terms, International has done a lot better. (Top 3% versus top 30%, with a several hundred bps lead in absolute returns at a time when international, broadly speaking, trailed.) Oddly, Global was held by against its peer group because it had less exposure to hot US stocks than its average peer.
One might conclude that Mr. O'Keefe is good and Mr. Samra is great. In any case, Morningstar just upgraded Global to a Gold analyst rating, arguing that the team is becoming deeper and more cohesive.
For what that's worth.

VUG vs VTV vs SPY chart total returns. 5 years.
Value may remain value for good reasons and not yet ready for 'prime time'.

Thanks for answering my question @WABAC . I could live with 6.55 return.

de nada @Derf. I'll add that returns have been skimmpier these past few years.

Um, you missed my point. But worse, you seem to have twisted what I said.
"6% in six months would, in any other year, be considered an excellent performance. It is only in comparison to NVDA or QQQ that OAKMX looks bad."
I DID NOT compare value stocks to NVDA. I noted what I trust many posters here are NOT aware of in relation to some LCV funds this year. That is, chances are, the LCV OEFs that are significantly outperforming their peers YTD are slanted towards Growth and/or have names like NVDA in the fold.
Truth be told, OAKMX's 6% YTD performance thru 06/30/24 is far from "excellent" for this fund. It's 5-yr average annual TR is 16.5%, so it is trailing that on a 6-month basis. Its 10-yr average is 11.5%, so on par with that on a 6-month basis, or effectively an average TR for 6 months over the past 10 years.
But you REALLY lost me with this zinger:
"Almost nothing other than the Mag 7 has been up more than 5 to 10% this year."
Here are the 226/500, or 45+% of the S&P stocks that are UP over 6% YTD.
https://www.slickcharts.com/sp500/performance
Excerpt:
S&P 500 Component Year to Date Returns
# Company Symbol YTD Return
1 SUPER MICRO COMPUTER INC SMCI 194.51%
2 NVIDIA CORP NVDA 147.72%
3 VISTRA CORP VST 127.67%
4 CONSTELLATION ENERGY CEG 76.36%
5 ELI LILLY + CO LLY 55.55%
6 MICRON TECHNOLOGY INC MU 55.37%
7 ARISTA NETWORKS INC ANET 51.59%
8 CROWDSTRIKE HOLDINGS INC A CRWD 50.81%
9 TARGA RESOURCES CORP TRGP 50.80%
10 NRG ENERGY INC NRG 50.66%
11 WESTERN DIGITAL CORP WDC 49.04%
12 APPLIED MATERIALS INC AMAT 48.61%
13 BROADCOM INC AVGO 48.49%
14 NETAPP INC NTAP 47.32%
15 KLA CORP KLAC 44.35%
16 HOWMET AEROSPACE INC HWM 44.25%
17 META PLATFORMS INC CLASS A META 43.94%
18 DECKERS OUTDOOR CORP DECK 40.72%
19 NETFLIX INC NFLX 39.58%
20 QUALCOMM INC QCOM 38.39%
21 TERADYNE INC TER 37.85%
22 LAM RESEARCH CORP LRCX 36.97%
23 AMPHENOL CORP CL A APH 36.29%
24 ORACLE CORP ORCL 35.90%
25 LEIDOS HOLDINGS INC LDOS 34.76%
26 GODADDY INC CLASS A GDDY 34.65%
27 ARCH CAPITAL GROUP LTD ACGL 34.64%
28 CHIPOTLE MEXICAN GRILL INC CMG 34.24%
29 TRANE TECHNOLOGIES PLC TT 33.18%
30 ALPHABET INC CL A GOOGL 32.61%
31 PROGRESSIVE CORP PGR 32.55%
32 BOSTON SCIENTIFIC CORP BSX 32.42%
33 ALPHABET INC CL C GOOG 32.41%
34 DAVITA INC DVA 32.16%
35 DIAMONDBACK ENERGY INC FANG 32.13%
36 AMAZON.COM INC AMZN 31.63%
37 FAIR ISAAC CORP FICO 31.39%
38 MONOLITHIC POWER SYSTEMS INC MPWR 31.38%
39 GENERAL MOTORS CO GM 30.71%
40 COSTCO WHOLESALE CORP COST 30.19%
41 EATON CORP PLC ETN 30.09%
42 INTUITIVE SURGICAL INC ISRG 30.07%
43 IRON MOUNTAIN INC IRM 29.82%
44 WALMART INC WMT 29.53%
45 KKR + CO INC KKR 27.86%
46 GENERAL ELECTRIC CO GE 26.50%
47 TRANSDIGM GROUP INC TDG 26.34%
48 MCKESSON CORP MCK 26.32%
49 CORNING INC GLW 26.08%
50 BROWN + BROWN INC BRO 26.07%
51 AMERICAN EXPRESS CO AXP 25.96%
52 FIRST SOLAR INC FSLR 25.80%
53 SYNCHRONY FINANCIAL SYF 25.77%
54 CITIGROUP INC C 25.74%
55 GARMIN LTD GRMN 25.63%
56 FIDELITY NATIONAL INFO SERV FIS 25.24%
57 CATALENT INC CTLT 25.08%
58 HARTFORD FINANCIAL SVCS GRP HIG 24.45%
59 HEWLETT PACKARD ENTERPRISE HPE 24.38%
60 JUNIPER NETWORKS INC JNPR 24.05%
61 WELLS FARGO + CO WFC 23.87%
62 TRACTOR SUPPLY COMPANY TSCO 23.72%
63 MOTOROLA SOLUTIONS INC MSI 23.53%
64 JPMORGAN CHASE + CO JPM 22.77%
65 WABTEC CORP WAB 22.52%
66 MICROSOFT CORP MSFT 22.14%
67 EBAY INC EBAY 22.08%
68 TYLER TECHNOLOGIES INC TYL 21.74%
69 BANK OF AMERICA CORP BAC 21.56%
70 VALERO ENERGY CORP VLO 21.51%
71 WILLIAMS COS INC WMB 21.45%
72 GE VERNOVA INC GEV 21.29%
73 UNIVERSAL HEALTH SERVICES B UHS 21.18%
74 ROYAL CARIBBEAN CRUISES LTD RCL 20.94%
75 SEAGATE TECHNOLOGY HOLDINGS STX 20.80%
76 GOLDMAN SACHS GROUP INC GS 20.70%
77 COLGATE PALMOLIVE CO CL 20.59%
78 INTERNATIONAL PAPER CO IP 20.33%
79 PUBLIC SERVICE ENTERPRISE GP PEG 20.33%
80 EDWARDS LIFESCIENCES CORP EW 19.65%
81 DOMINO S PIZZA INC DPZ 19.50%
82 RTX CORP RTX 19.34%
83 REGENERON PHARMACEUTICALS REGN 18.94%
84 DISCOVER FINANCIAL SERVICES DFS 18.81%
85 ECOLAB INC ECL 18.81%
86 NXP SEMICONDUCTORS NV NXPI 18.44%
87 HILTON WORLDWIDE HOLDINGS IN HLT 18.40%
88 SYNOPSYS INC SNPS 18.40%
89 MARATHON OIL CORP MRO 18.29%
90 HCA HEALTHCARE INC HCA 18.11%
91 FEDEX CORP FDX 17.89%
92 MODERNA INC MRNA 17.72%
93 WELLTOWER INC WELL 17.52%
94 WESTROCK CO WRK 17.51%
95 TJX COMPANIES INC TJX 17.47%
96 MARATHON PETROLEUM CORP MPC 17.38%
97 ONEOK INC OKE 17.25%
98 INGERSOLL RAND INC IR 17.22%
99 MERCK + CO. INC. MRK 17.15%
100 REPUBLIC SERVICES INC RSG 17.13%
101 RALPH LAUREN CORP RL 17.02%
102 INTL FLAVORS + FRAGRANCES IFF 17.01%
103 WASTE MANAGEMENT INC WM 16.96%
104 CINTAS CORP CTAS 16.87%
105 UNITED AIRLINES HOLDINGS INC UAL 16.82%
106 FOX CORP CLASS B FOX 16.82%
107 ARTHUR J GALLAGHER + CO AJG 16.51%
108 VERTEX PHARMACEUTICALS INC VRTX 16.44%
109 TEXAS INSTRUMENTS INC TXN 16.40%
110 CADENCE DESIGN SYS INC CDNS 16.31%
111 BANK OF NEW YORK MELLON CORP BK 16.23%
112 FOX CORP CLASS A FOXA 16.21%
113 DELTA AIR LINES INC DAL 16.11%
114 NEXTERA ENERGY INC NEE 16.02%
115 XYLEM INC XYL 15.66%
116 HP INC HPQ 15.65%
117 PALO ALTO NETWORKS INC PANW 15.45%
118 JOHNSON CONTROLS INTERNATION JCI 15.06%
119 DOVER CORP DOV 15.05%
120 ANALOG DEVICES INC ADI 14.95%
121 CINCINNATI FINANCIAL CORP CINF 14.88%
122 QUANTA SERVICES INC PWR 14.82%
123 UBER TECHNOLOGIES INC UBER 14.78%
124 VERALTO CORP VLTO 14.70%
125 ALLSTATE CORP ALL 14.43%
126 FREEPORT MCMORAN INC FCX 14.42%
127 APPLE INC AAPL 14.41%
128 PRUDENTIAL FINANCIAL INC PRU 14.31%
129 AMERIPRISE FINANCIAL INC AMP 14.23%
130 EXXON MOBIL CORP XOM 14.20%
131 ALTRIA GROUP INC MO 14.15%
132 BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY INC CL B BRK.B 14.14%
133 VERISK ANALYTICS INC VRSK 14.02%
134 ELEVANCE HEALTH INC ELV 13.65%
135 DIGITAL REALTY TRUST INC DLR 13.62%
136 KIMBERLY CLARK CORP KMB 13.56%
137 AXON ENTERPRISE INC AXON 13.49%
138 ZEBRA TECHNOLOGIES CORP CL A ZBRA 13.43%
139 AIRBNB INC CLASS A ABNB 13.37%
140 CHUBB LTD CB 13.08%
141 UNITED RENTALS INC URI 12.64%
142 ROLLINS INC ROL 12.55%
143 NEWS CORP CLASS A NWSA 12.55%
144 FISERV INC FI 12.46%
145 SERVICENOW INC NOW 12.40%
146 EMERSON ELECTRIC CO EMR 12.27%
147 T MOBILE US INC TMUS 12.26%
148 AT+T INC T 12.16%
149 WR BERKLEY CORP WRB 12.01%
150 MARSH + MCLENNAN COS MMC 11.89%
151 METTLER TOLEDO INTERNATIONAL MTD 11.88%
152 PROCTER + GAMBLE CO/THE PG 11.85%
153 KINDER MORGAN INC KMI 11.79%
154 HASBRO INC HAS 11.75%
155 CUMMINS INC CMI 11.68%
156 STRYKER CORP SYK 11.63%
157 COPART INC CPRT 11.61%
158 EQUITY RESIDENTIAL EQR 11.51%
159 CHURCH + DWIGHT CO INC CHD 11.51%
160 ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES AMD 11.46%
161 HUBBELL INC HUBB 11.21%
162 AMERICAN INTERNATIONAL GROUP AIG 11.19%
163 AUTOZONE INC AZO 11.00%
164 CATERPILLAR INC CAT 10.85%
165 WW GRAINGER INC GWW 10.77%
166 PARKER HANNIFIN CORP PH 10.71%
167 M + T BANK CORP MTB 10.69%
168 SOUTHERN CO/THE SO 10.60%
169 NEWS CORP CLASS B NWS 10.50%
170 BOOKING HOLDINGS INC BKNG 10.40%
171 KROGER CO KR 10.33%
172 TAPESTRY INC TPR 10.13%
173 CORTEVA INC CTVA 10.12%
174 ESSEX PROPERTY TRUST INC ESS 10.10%
175 RESMED INC RMD 10.07%
176 GENERAL DYNAMICS CORP GD 10.07%
177 CITIZENS FINANCIAL GROUP CFG 9.78%
178 CAMDEN PROPERTY TRUST CPT 9.71%
179 INTERCONTINENTAL EXCHANGE IN ICE 9.65%
180 RAYMOND JAMES FINANCIAL INC RJF 9.49%
181 GEN DIGITAL INC GEN 9.38%
182 CARRIER GLOBAL CORP CARR 9.36%
183 BUNGE GLOBAL SA BG 9.34%
184 O REILLY AUTOMOTIVE INC ORLY 9.16%
185 MOODY S CORP MCO 9.08%
186 AVALONBAY COMMUNITIES INC AVB 9.07%
187 VERIZON COMMUNICATIONS INC VZ 9.02%
188 PACKAGING CORP OF AMERICA PKG 8.96%
189 THE CIGNA GROUP CI 8.84%
190 WILLIS TOWERS WATSON PLC WTW 8.67%
191 STEEL DYNAMICS INC STLD 8.64%
192 WALT DISNEY CO/THE DIS 8.53%
193 INTL BUSINESS MACHINES CORP IBM 8.41%
194 AFLAC INC AFL 8.40%
195 CENCORA INC COR 8.34%
196 PHILIP MORRIS INTERNATIONAL PM 8.04%
197 VULCAN MATERIALS CO VMC 7.96%
198 AMGEN INC AMGN 7.90%
199 AMERICAN ELECTRIC POWER AEP 7.88%
200 SCHWAB (CHARLES) CORP SCHW 7.78%
201 LOEWS CORP L 7.69%
202 NISOURCE INC NI 7.61%
203 OTIS WORLDWIDE CORP OTIS 7.24%
204 FIFTH THIRD BANCORP FITB 7.22%
205 MARTIN MARIETTA MATERIALS MLM 7.20%
206 COCA COLA CO/THE KO 7.16%
207 TRUIST FINANCIAL CORP TFC 7.15%
208 CAPITAL ONE FINANCIAL CORP COF 7.14%
209 CONSTELLATION BRANDS INC A STZ 7.11%
210 ABBVIE INC ABBV 7.09%
211 UDR INC UDR 7.05%
212 TRAVELERS COS INC/THE TRV 6.91%
213 MORGAN STANLEY MS 6.86%
214 TE CONNECTIVITY LTD TEL 6.72%
215 TEXTRON INC TXT 6.67%
216 CENTERPOINT ENERGY INC CNP 6.62%
217 MOHAWK INDUSTRIES INC MHK 6.60%
218 NVR INC NVR 6.57%
219 TYSON FOODS INC CL A TSN 6.46%
220 MARRIOTT INTERNATIONAL CL A MAR 6.42%
221 T ROWE PRICE GROUP INC TROW 6.42%
222 AVERY DENNISON CORP AVY 6.41%
223 GENERAC HOLDINGS INC GNRC 6.24%
224 L3HARRIS TECHNOLOGIES INC LHX 6.16%
225 EASTMAN CHEMICAL CO EMN 6.16%
226 JACOBS SOLUTIONS INC J 6.14%

@WABAC " Stared at VWINX, which I have owned forever, and blinked. I couldn't figure out why to hold onto it. Sold it "
Do you have an idea what your annual return was ?
Thanks for your time, Derf

No clue. It was bought before they were required to keep track of cost basis. IIRC, any other return info at Vanguard was the most recent ten years.
When I added it into my watch fund at M* I just used the price it was at on Jan 1, 2012. Since then it has returned 6.55.

@catch, I am comfortable having this discussion staying in “other investing”. There are consequences of political spilling over into the investment world, and they are intimately tied together. As @junkster pointed out, Powell may loss his independent as the FED has historically been for many years.
@junkster, I have read similar assessment from Citi’s Jabaz Mathai, who wrote “We think that yields will be at risk of continuing the move higher from this week on expectations of tax cuts and higher Treasury supply with a Trump White House, with any tempering effect dependent on economic data.”
This explains the recent rise of 10 years treasury yield despite the slowing economy and labor market over the last few months.

Charles is back, with some really sharp observations from the Morningstar Investment Conference. I, likewise, chip in my 10 cents' worth. Minor snark might be involved.
Devesh reports on his two day visit with Artisan. I report on the 10 international funds - passive/smart beta/active, funds and ETFs, developed and developing are all rep'd - with the greatest consistency of strong performance over the past 10 years.
Lynn takes on the question, if Berkshire Hathaway were recognized as a mutual fund, which kind of mutual fund would it be?
We formally partnered with Morningstar on a research-based article on the fund families you can trust. At base, we meld together Lipper's 3-, 5- and 10-year Lipper Leader winners for consistent returns with MFO's top family designations with Morningstar's firm success metric (that even some of the Morningstar analysts did know it existed) that is survivorship-bias free. Not to break the news, the Dodge & Cox crushes pretty much everybody.
The Shadow tracked down an awfully lot of executions and shared word of the Primecap reopening.
And, speaking of shared words, Charles shares word on a July 10 webinar to acquaint folks with MFO Premium's upgrades.
Hope you enjoy!

Thanks for the link @Mark. I like this from Marks:

Investors should understand that the investment environment and the starting point for investments have a huge impact on their success, and the shorter your time horizon, the truer this is. Albert Einstein famously said, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.” I think another version of insanity is doing the same thing in a different environment and expecting the same result. So, if the environment for business and investing is going to be thoroughly different in the coming five or ten years from what it was in the last fifteen to forty years – as I believe – it’s folly to expect that the results will be the same as they were.

@catch22
Your post reminded me of a recent Wealth Track Show where the premise of life + liberty (rule of law) = higher long term investment returns.

Perth Tolle created the Life + LIberty Indexes on the theory that democracy pays. Her Freedom 100 Emerging Markets Index is proof, trouncing its autocracy-heavy benchmark in its first five years.

Haven't seen the play, but it looks like at least one production runs longer (2:25 + 15 min intermission) than the movie (2:00). That play running length is consistent with a 2008 production described in the NYTimes.
To each one's own.
("Snappier" could refer to dialog differences, but "glacial" suggests speed.)
https://www.shakespearenj.org/events/detail/a-man-for-all-seasons (see addl tkt info)
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1013162-man_for_all_seasons

Saw it when it came out. Watched it again in the last five-ten years. Maybe I would enjoy the movie if I saw it again. I have also seen a competent stage production, and read the script.
In this case glacial refers to all of the backgrounds and atmosphere the movie injects.There's no time for that in a stage production. The interaction between the characters speaking their lines has to carry the show.
Or perhaps I miss the character of The Common Man who cuts through all of that stuff in a production of the play.
Or maybe time, and a little history, has left me less enchanted with More all these years later.

In case people missed it, the historical arc of increasing government immunity started with the Warren court.
Now I'm going to go and rewatch a movie I haven't seen in many years about the tension between divine right and the rule of law in days of yore:

A truly glacial adaptation of a much snappier stage play IIRC

In case people missed it, the historical arc of increasing government immunity started with the Warren court.
Now I'm going to go and rewatch a movie I haven't seen in many years about the tension between divine right and the rule of law in days of yore:

>> large cap value is the coming sweet spot.
I have been hearing this for over 40 years

”… for the next five years.”
I like the specificity here. I’ll have Siri remind me to sell in 5 years.

@rforno
I recently had both Magic Eight Balls detailed on the outside, not unlike a car being detailed. I have also awaited and now received the set of Nvidia chips I ordered; and they have been installed.
I have both of them set for a variety of technical indicators, which have served our house well over the years; versus, well, the humans who talk about the markets, as well as many advisors. As we are on the 'senior investor' side of things, it is much easier to maintain a very simple portfolio and remain satisfied.

Laddered CDs ... 1, 3, 5 years ... all paying 5.3%, nominally, risk free as they come. No fee on new issues.
MINT. 5.3% yield.
RPHIX. 5.7%.
CBUDX. 5.9%
CBLDX. 7.5%.
Come quickly to mind.
c