Less Stupid Investing
>> “If you want to become less stupid at investing, one of the best things to do is surround yourself with people who disagree with you….”.
Well, jeez, within limits. See below.
>> goal to diminish investment innumeracy, especially in the statistical domain.
oh, hear, hear!
>> People think they go to conferences to learn something, but most often they go to have their beliefs confirmed and reinforced by others.” Unfortunately, I suspect more than a few MFO members populate and interact on this fine website for the same dubious purpose. To steal a famous Charles Ellis quote and book title, that’s a “loser’s game”. That’s a primary contributor as to why individual investors consistently don’t realize marketlike returns.
I dunno; I think it's chiefly cuz they don't stick with their plan ('investor returns'), and research bears this out. In other words the kind of people who have stuck with it over the years do not poke around the web and do not post here or anywhere. They enjoy life and do not obsess over investments. We are a forum it seems of aggressive changers and surely frequent traders in some percentage or other. How many times do you read here 'I am going to give it another few months ...' and 'I am thinking of swapping X for Y' and the like?
>> There is a common human tendency to summarily reject new data or new findings that contradict a previously established position. In the academic community, this tendency has a name; it’s called the “Semmelweis Reflex”. In the end, this Reflex erodes investment performance.
This is an extremely hot new journalism meme for sure, without question, esp in politics and finance. Knowing a fair amount about psychology, I call bullshit on it in a great many instances. Confirmation bias, please. I and most others do need to immerse ourselves in creationism, climate-change denial, audio tweakism, supply-side / constant government-denigrating rightwingism, gold advocacy or any other contrary views just to, what, realign or make a good dent in our friggin bias?
If you had been in smallcaps since say 1980 despite the warnings and conference talks about how they were going to something or other, you would have done well. If you had been in largecaps, the same, ignoring those who disagreed and told you to go to smallcaps, you woulda done fine. Indeed if you had stuck with high-yield, or invest-grade bond, or growth, SP500, value, or balanced --- any one of those and only that --- you woulda done just fine.
If you are looking for certainty before 1980, well, sticktoitiveness is no worse than anything else.
>> I suppose one of the lessons from this body of research is that we should all seek and be tolerant of divergent market perspectives and investment opportunities. I believe most MFO participants are in this cohort.
depends
>> Recent academic studies once again conclude that about 75% of active fund managers have long term performance records that roughly hover near the zero Alpha benchmark. Of the residual 25%, about 24% produce negative Alpha. That means that only 1% generate measurable positive Alpha over an extended timeframe. That’s the sad odds when establishing an actively managed portfolio.
Right, concur, roger --- except when it is not. They say, oh how they say, how they repeat, how they admonish, that past performance does not etc etc etc.
Jeez, then what good IS it?
If you had picked long ago (35y) a category above, within a fund family, much less a given manager or group, that was highly regarded back then by some metric or other, guess what? You woulda done fine. That's what my backtesting shows me, cuz I did it --- or failed to. I chased outperformance, stupidly. From 1982 reading I coulda stuck with Fulkerson (CENSX), Fidelity Trend (my father), Janus, much less LOMMX, PENNX, DODBX, Contrafund .... but I woulda second-guessed when they slumped or changed managers or whatever, and woulda bailed. I am positive that this is what most do.
If the triumph of passive investing is that people stick with it, then that's a real and indeed revolutionary triumph. It is NOT a reason not to actively invest or seek superior managers. SPX performance is the least of all of those above, btw. So, I say, make a few seemingly sound decisions based on past performance (go ahead) and leave it the hell alone for a decade.
Easy to preach about this.
I don't know where to turn to find disagreeing viewpoints that are worth spit. I guess that sounds awfully vain. But I am kind of tired of hearing about confirmation bias and its ills, for anyone who is the least bit self-skeptical, investigative but not OCD about it, and tries to monitor his or her own prejudices.
Less Stupid Investing Hi Old Joe and rjb112,
Thank you guys for your pity observations.
It doesn’t get too much older then this, but Publilius Syrus in the 1st century BC said: “It is a bad plan that admits of no modifications”. That ancient wisdom applies today and everyday, especially in spades, for investment matters. All investment decisions, both bad and good, are transient and require constant monitoring and hopefully infrequent changes.
I took the mutual fund Alpha performance data from a 2010 report that I failed to reference. Sorry about that. The title of the study is “False Discoveries in Mutual Fund Performance: Measuring Luck in Estimated Alphas”. The three authors are Barras, Scaillet, and Wermers. For completeness, here is a Link to that study:
http://www.rhsmith.umd.edu/faculty/rwermers/FDR_published.pdfThe paper is rather dense. I only reviewed the Introduction and Conclusions sections.
For brevity in my initial post, I omitted some other findings and observations by these researchers that might interest you. For example, the authors discovered that the overall positive Alphas generated by active fund managers have significantly eroded over time. They report that positive Alpha funds have decreased from a roughly 1
5% level to the present 1% level in the last 20 years.
Are fund managers getting dumber? My answer is NO. My interpretation is that active fund managers have proliferated and the field had gotten stronger with increased competition that lowers opportunities to outperform.
Another intriguing aspect of the study is the rather long-term survival of the underperforming funds. The authors included the following statement in their Conclusions section: “Still, it is puzzling why investors seem to increasingly tolerate the existence of a large minority of funds that produce negative alphas, when an increasing array of passively managed funds have become available (such as ETFs).”
I suppose, many of us are slow learners and/or are reluctant to omit a mistake. Another dimension to this misguided loyalty is that we often fail to make relevant benchmark comparisons. I attribute this failure, at least partially, to our limited understanding and trust in statistics.
As Zig Ziglar said:” The first step in solving a problem is to recognize that it does exist”. I believe successful investing requires testing outcomes against some pertinent (designed for your specific purposes) benchmark standard. I suspect that some (perhaps most) individual investors don’t do this simple task to their end financial detriment.
Thanks again guys for keeping this discussion fresh.
Best Wishes.
Less Stupid Investing Hi Guys,
Well I’ll risk jumping from the frying pan into the fire with this reference, but it does address a serious shortcoming in many investor's behavior.
I’m referring to a recent Motley Fool article cobbled together by Morgan Housel titled “How to Get Less Stupid at Investing”. The article touts the benefits of seeking a divergent set of market opinions, especially those that directly conflict with your special preferences and biases. Here is the Link:
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/07/08/how-to-get-less-stupid-at-investing.aspx?source=iaasitlnk0000003Housel’s bottom-line observation is: “If you want to become less stupid at investing, one of the best things to do is surround yourself with people who disagree with you….”.
That’s one of two primary reasons why I have been a constant visitor and occasional contributor to MFO. My other reason harbors a goal to diminish investment innumeracy, especially in the statistical domain. Individual investors better understand and appreciate that historically, equities offer a 7 out of 10 likelihood of positive annual returns over quoting the same statistic as a 70% probability. That’s surprising, but is true.
Near the end of the article, Housel formulates a Law: “This made me realize the First Law of Financial Conferences: People think they go to conferences to learn something, but most often they go to have their beliefs confirmed and reinforced by others.”
Unfortunately, I suspect more than a few MFO members populate and interact on this fine website for the same dubious purpose. To steal a famous Charles Ellis quote and book title, that’s a “loser’s game”. That’s a primary contributor as to why individual investors consistently don’t realize market-like returns.
There is a common human tendency to summarily reject new data or new findings that contradict a previously established position. In the academic community, this tendency has a name; it’s called the “Semmelweis Reflex”. In the end, this Reflex erodes investment performance.
I suppose one of the lessons from this body of research is that we should all seek and be tolerant of divergent market perspectives and investment opportunities. I believe most MFO participants are in this cohort.
So, permit me to conclude with yet another frying pan exposure which will test your active fund manager appetite.
Recent academic studies once again conclude that about 7
5% of active fund managers have long term performance records that roughly hover near the zero Alpha benchmark. Of the residual 2
5%, about 24% produce negative Alpha. That means that only 1% generate measurable positive Alpha over an extended timeframe. That’s the sad odds when establishing an actively managed portfolio.
Good luck to all you guys who pursue the active strategy, and I really mean it. Most importantly, I want everyone to succeed. Almost equally importantly, it is the pursuit of active management that keeps the market pricing discovery mechanism functioning well. Thank you for accepting that necessary and costly task. In a sense, the passive Index fund investor is indeed getting a free lunch.
Best Regards.
Q&A With Eric Cinnamond, Manager, Aston/River Road Independent Value Fund I agree with Bee. If this has been your main small value fund, you've missed out on one of the great bull markets in SV, and unless we get another 2008 style crash (which Cinnamond, in the above article, makes clear he is expecting), you'll never make up for that lost opportunity.
But as a cash alternative, 5% a year is pretty amazing. Plus you get the potential for big gains if the market does crash. Not bad at all.
Yet Cinnamond failed to take advantage of what was, in retrospect, a great buying opportunity -- the 20% corection in SV in 2011. He is, I'll say it again, betting on another 2008 crash. In fact, with his top holdings all precious metals, I'd say he's betting on apocalypse. (Perhaps he should consider renaming his fund teapx, since this is investing the tea party might like.)
Of course, with 1.4% E.R. on 700 mln in assets, that's a cool 10 million a year Mr. Cinnamond is getting paid to wait for apocalypse, so if I were him I'd be patient too.
Q&A With Eric Cinnamond, Manager, Aston/River Road Independent Value Fund For investors who are thinking of going to cash (timing "out of the market"), but don't like the idea of (timing "back into the market") you might consider using these contrarian fund managers as an alternative to "holding cash". "Hold Cinnamonds"..."hold Yacktmans"..."hold Rommicks" verses going to cash and "holding Yellens".
The opportunity cost of holding these contrarian funds (cash heavy funds periodically anchored at sea) might be better than the opprotunity costs of pure cash. These managers are experienced at putting money back to work. Most individual investor are talented at pulling money out of funds (cash that sits drydocked on the shore) and never getting their cash back into the water (market). Individuals are not usually well disciplined or skilled at buying back into a corrected market.
If it is your strong suit keep posting here for the rest of our benefit.
Related Article:
bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-25/weitz-to-yacktman-hold-cash-as-managers-find-few-bargains.html
Diversified Investors, Don't Lose Your Balance
Q&A With David Miller, Manager, Catalyst Insider Buying Fund
PREMX item in its portf. Vereinigte Mexikanische 7.75%
Among its top 5 positions. Mexican something(?) Seems like a German designation, no? What gives?
Why Interest Rates May Stay Very Low For A Lot Longer Yup, stuff/info that some of us have been chewing upon here and (FundAlarm) for the past 5 years.
Wait til the 30 mortgage moves above the 5% rate and watch what happens to everything related to existing and new home sales.
Do continue to believe the "rock and the hard place" for rates will be here for some time to come.
And the longer the clock runs with folks comfortable with low rates, the harder it will become for the central banks to attempt to reverse the direction.
Fun times ahead for all things investments will continue.
Sadly the clock of investment time and inflation will continue to destroy the savings accts of many Americans; especially the senior citizens who want nothing to do with the Wall St. scene.
Hoping everyone's magic 8-ball is in proper working condition.
Regards,
Catch
The Closing Bell: Corn, Wheat Futures Hit Nearly 4-Year Low
Ted,not so funny as those storms rolled through Chicago Land, but as these lower commodity prices wind through the food and energy consumer cost factors, we may all benefit.
Copy and Paste from Dow Jones W S J
By TONY C. DREIBUS
Updated July 7, 2014 5:24 p.m. ET
CHICAGO—Corn and wheat futures tumbled to their lowest prices in nearly four years as favorable weather over the July Fourth holiday weekend upgraded prospects for U.S. crops.
Soybeans fell, too, closing at their lowest level in more than four months.
In the past week, up to six times the normal amount of precipitation fell in parts of Iowa and Illinois, the biggest U.S. growers of corn and soybeans, further improving growing conditions. About three-fourths of the nation's corn and soybean crops were in good or excellent condition as of Sunday, according to the U.S. Agriculture Department.
Continued balmy, rainy weather will help lift corn and soybean yields that the USDA has estimated will reach record levels this year, analysts said. The USDA has estimated this autumn's corn harvest will total 13.935 billion bushels, surpassing last year's record crop, while soybean output also will set a record.
The Closing Bell:
Why Interest Rates May Stay Very Low For A Lot Longer
With Stocks So High, Should Investors Move To Cash ? Hello,
One of the ways I have raised cash in a rising bull market when I felt either stocks were over valued or I had reached the upper limits for stocks within my asset allocation was to set up a systematic sell down process as stocks continued to advance.
Essentially, here is what I did. Back when the S&P 500 Index was around 1600 I’d sell about one percent of my equities off for every 25 point of their advancement which equaled, percentage wise, about 1.5% of their upward movement. When my cash reached my targeted level I had the choice to either spend some of it for new purchases, take a cash distribution form the portfolio or just let it ride and stop the systematic stock sell down process. Since my portfolio generates about 1.25% of cash per quarter I stopped the systematic sell down process and started buying around the edges with part of the 1.25% per quarter cash that the portfolio generates.
Since, I have already raised my cash to levels I feel comfortable with in this overvalued stock market (by my thinking) there is nothing left for me to do but wait for the long anticipated pull back. If it comes fine I have been prudent and have plenty of cash to buy the pull back and if stock valuations continue their upward movement well that is fine too as I have plenty of equities at work within my portfolio to enjoy their continued upward march. Year-to-date my portfolio is up about 7.5% through July 3, while the Lipper Balanced Index which is my portfolio's bogey is up about 6.0%. With this, Old_Skeet plans to keep on keeping-on.
I am not saying what I did was the perfect move; but, for me, I felt it was the prudent thing to do.
I wish all … “Good Investing.”
Old_Skeet
Utilities, Energy, Health Care Are The ETFs To Beat This Year: (TA) Thanks Ted,
Thought I'd include this chart from the last page of your article:

new MAINX shorts Well, thank you all, a lot. She's shorting-hedging the dollar because it's going to drop in value. Or maybe not. It's all about reducing volatility. OK. The Vanguard video was very helpful! ....But this might explain why the fund is not keeping up with its peers? Morningstar is often unhelpful, it's true. But M* shows MAINX with VERY different performance numbers since just the last few days. (Much better.) Are they using a different peer group now, or different criteria? Who knows. It's not the best source of information, is it??? Anyhow, I'm sticking with MAINX. My stake has done well in that fund. And it's still very young. Inception was 30 Nov, 2011. Still not a lot of AUM. $55M. Thanks again for the responses.