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Wednesday's coup attempt

edited January 2021 in Off-Topic
No argument from me:

"The broader damage around the world will be extensive in terms of reputation, and that's why Putin doesn't mind at all that Trump lost. He's got to be happy to take his chips and count his winnings, which from the Trump era will be a shockingly quick decline in American prestige and moral high ground.

"Every moment the Americans spend on their own self-inflicted chaos helps China, it helps Putin, and, to a lesser extent, it helps the mini-dictators like [Turkish President Recep Tayyip] Erdogan and [Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor] Orban, who breathe cynicism about politics, human rights, and democracy as their air," the official said. "They won't miss Trump; they'll be glad to see his drama leave so they can enjoy the poisoned political climate."

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Comments

  • What trouble me is that the coup attempt at DC did not ended on Wednesday. This continues in the capitals of several major cities. Words matters when it comes to spread the lies and call for violent. The article below mentioned 11 states, not including Lansing, MI and Salem, OR. This is nuts and cannot continues.
    https://nbcnews.com/news/us-news/protesters-gather-outside-state-capitols-nationwide-chaos-sweeps-congress-n1253125

    One legislator in OR even let the protestors enter the building when it is in session. This is absolutely unacceptable to the safety and security perspective. Remember, some states allow for open-carry guns. Over the summer, Michigan legislators bring firearms to the capital just to protect themselves.
    https://cnn.com/2021/01/08/us/oregon-legislator-entry-protest-december-trnd/index.html

  • Downhill fast. And yes, the coup extended to several State Capitols. The poison has been spreading for decades, really and truly going back to the days of the Newt. I said so on another thread, too. It was THERE that the amoral Repugnant Party we know and love today was born. Anything to win. Anything to remain, and not have to go. Conspiracy theories built on pure fabrications, then they pretend it's real, and run with it. The waiting audience, the "voter base," has been groomed and brainwashed for a very long time.
  • edited January 2021
    This is only the beginning of a long slide downhill. I am particularly concern about the safety of Joe Biden and Karmala Harris on January 20th.

    Joe Biden also recalling the Secret Service details who protected him when he was vice president (that should said something there).

    Can one imagine what US's adversary (Russia, China, Iran and etc) think of our great democracy now?
  • edited January 2021
    Speaking about personal safety the guy that I worry about right now is the new Senator Warnock from Georgia. I just have a real bad feeling that one of Trump's thugs will try to take him out.
  • oh, dear. don't want to even think that thought.
  • edited January 2021
    You are right. Senator Warnock has not been swore in yet. Don't know how much personal protection he has until then. This remind all of us on the assassination history of Martin Luther King and President Kennedy and their respective political atmosphere.
  • @Sven- Yes, exactly.
  • "This has been a horrific week. If it has a silver lining, it is that the lines are now clear between our democracy and its enemies."
    Heather Cox Richardson
    January 8, 2021
  • edited January 2021
    This riot in DC is far from over. The inauguration date January 20th will be very dangerous. Saw a piece from Michael Cheroff, former DHS head under Bush administration this morning and the failure to act on the intelligence available in the media is unreal and chilling. Failure to act fell on the FBI, Homeland Security and Capital Police. They would have blow up the building and kill off a number of the lawmakers. It was 1800's when the British burned the Capital building. This simply cannot happen again.

    I do hope this is a wake up call and to ensure absolute security is in place in order to protect everyone.
  • In addition charges and prosecution of all involved in lawlessness including the sitting president I most hope to see at a minimum 2nd degree murder convictions for those responsible for Officer Brian D. Sicknick's death.
  • The press put it nicely but Officier Sicknick was essentially beaten to death with a fire extinguisher. He died from a blood clot in the brain after he collapsed at the police station. that is so sad! CanTrump pardon all these rioters since they will be charged with federal crime?

    How the country come to this "divided" atmosphere is similar to what Joseph Goebbels's propaganda strategy that resulted in the rise of Nazi. Goebbels once said if you tell the lies over and over again, people will eventually believe the lies are the truth. This is exactly what Trump did to the general public on the election process, the non-GOP voters, immigrants, science and the environment. Today there is over 370,000 COVID-related death in US and this is real number from CDC. Wonder what these GOP followers do when they found out everything the GOP has been telling them are nothing but lies.
  • "Wonder what these GOP followers do when they found out everything the GOP has been telling them are nothing but lies"

    But Sven- that, you see, is exactly the problem. Trump prevented that by first convincing them that any information source that disagreed with him is "fake". Once that was done, the GOP followers were left with no information sources that could or would convince them that "everything the GOP has been telling them are nothing but lies".

    It's a very efficient closed propaganda ecosystem. I would be willing to bet a lot of money that our very own Professor David Snowball could, if he so chose, provide a huge amount of detailed insight into the history and effectiveness of this type of attack on democracy. He's spent a lot of his life and teaching career dealing with exactly this sort of thing.


    @David_Snowball- I realize that to maintain the neutrality of MFO you can't really respond as I've suggested, but I bet that you'd really love to.

    Regards- OJ
  • In another word, they have drank Jim Jones Kool aid and there is no turning back. Over 70 millions people voted for this big lies. Also they will likely to suffer from more COVID infection and not taking the vaccine when they are available. Incredible!
  • edited January 2021
    d
  • Exactly.
  • These two quotes were posted by a viewer in response to a very recent PBS broadcast/interview with Rick Wilson of The Lincoln Project:

    The secret of freedom is educating the people, whereas the secret of tyranny is keeping them ignorant." ~Robespierre

    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities” ~ Voltaire


    They do seem fitting at the moment, and once again remind us of the price of ignoring history.
  • edited January 2021
    That is why we have history class in high school.

    Variations on the repeating-history theme appear alongside debates about attribution:
    Irish statesman Edmund Burke is often misquoted as having said, “Those who don’t know history are destined to repeat it.” Spanish philosopher George Santayana is credited with the aphorism, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it,” while British statesman Winston Churchill wrote, “Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”
  • Agree with you both about history, but I do think 2021 presents some unique problems with the way information is disseminated. In other words there are many more "alternative" histories today, and it's very easy to propagate false information, or doctored information as truth. The wonders of Photoshop, etc.! There is already an alternative narrative as to what happened during these treasonous events by the right-wing.
  • With you on that, Lewis.
  • @LewisBraham, I concur. Social media today help to spread the new without fact checking/editing board as in new channels. Thus the false information spreads like wildfire. Challenge is that many people do not question information posted in social media and it folds right into the propaganda. Indeed very dangerous time right now for our democracy and constitution.
  • Sven said:

    That is why we have history class in high school.

    Variations on the repeating-history theme appear alongside debates about attribution:
    Irish statesman Edmund Burke is often misquoted as having said, “Those who don’t know history are destined to repeat it.” Spanish philosopher George Santayana is credited with the aphorism, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it,” while British statesman Winston Churchill wrote, “Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”

    Something tells me it is not that simple. Another quote attributed to Churchill:
    When Winston Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt met in August 1941 on the battleship HMS Prince of Wales to agree the Atlantic Charter, a church service was held for which Prime Minister Churchill chose the hymns. He chose "Onward, Christian Soldiers" and afterwards made a radio broadcast explaining this choice:[7]

    We sang "Onward, Christian Soldiers" indeed, and I felt that this was no vain presumption, but that we had the right to feel that we were serving a cause for the sake of which a trumpet has sounded from on high. When I looked upon that densely packed congregation of fighting men of the same language, of the same faith, of the same fundamental laws, of the same ideals ... it swept across me that here was the only hope, but also the sure hope, of saving the world from measureless degradation.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onward,_Christian_Soldiers

    When you can tell yourself such things then attacking the Capitol after the Trump "trumpet" becomes warriors of the "same language, of the same faith, of the same fundamental laws, of the same ideals: "saving the" US "from measureless degradation".

    In my mind, knowing the people I grew up with in MS whose grandchildren were likely in or wanting to be in the crowd trashing our government, the problem is not facts, not truth, but is belief and faith. Childhood friends share Facebook posters of the faithful holding up Trump to the heavens asking for God's help to keep him in power. They get their knowledge of the world at church and from each other. Anything else is suspect.
  • Please don't get me started on the pernicious history of major organized religions. I was raised a Catholic and you wouldn't believe some of the things that we were taught with respect to non-Catholics. It's my impression that that sort of thing isn't done anymore, but I saw enough to put me off the rest of my life. The faithful, or the enemy. A binary choice, with exceptions of course for other religions which happen to be temporary allies in some domestic battle, such as abortion beliefs.

    A pox on all of them.
  • edited January 2021
    Still, it's pretty twisted that religion somehow got tied together with the idea of owning any and all assault rifles. Where does Jesus mention Ak47s on the Sermon on the Mount? Even religion itself has been perverted by a carefully organized propaganda machine within American religious institutions. And interestingly, the Pope--and I am not a Catholic--has spoken out against much of this craziness: https://cnn.com/2021/01/09/politics/pope-francis-us-capitol-violence/index.html
  • Sven said:

    @LewisBraham, I concur. Social media today help to spread the new without fact checking/editing board as in new channels. Thus the false information spreads like wildfire. Challenge is that many people do not question information posted in social media and it folds right into the propaganda. Indeed very dangerous time right now for our democracy and constitution.

    YES! What you said!
  • edited January 2021
    In my mind, knowing the people I grew up with in MS whose grandchildren were likely in or wanting to be in the crowd trashing our government, the problem is not facts, not truth, but is belief and faith. Childhood friends share Facebook posters of the faithful holding up Trump to the heavens asking for God's help to keep him in power. They get their knowledge of the world at church and from each other. Anything else is suspect.
    Pretty disgusting, yes. (And I've seen for myself the religious ignorance in the South, but it's not restricted to the South.) Particularly since, before retirement, I myself was a "religious leader." Ordained and served churches, anyhow--- if that qualifies. And HOW MANY evangelicals voted for the tRumpster AGAIN? Despicable. I conclude that they've morphed their faith into a tool of the State, but it's a twisted, misguided perception of what the State should be about. And it's a weirdly transmogrified "Christianity" that possesses them.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/01/evangelicals-catholics-jericho-march-capitol/617591/?fbclid=IwAR19izTVBqzNhOk-4gPbUBzrXtPyWC8dkae9NSyLB9vw3aKbYfFe2h40CkU
    And:
    "This is the central promise of the Trump administration: Real Americans—especially conservative people of faith—are under siege, and the president will defend them."
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/kayleigh-mcenany-trump-evangelicals/613471/




  • edited January 2021
    A witch's brew if ever there was one.
  • I found this article by a former Republican operative who left the party in 2016 particularly interesting regarding the religious Christian angle and how the party's shifted on it over the years: https://forbes.com/sites/chrisladd/2017/03/27/pastors-not-politicians-turned-dixie-republican/?sh=1d0525e8695f
    Of particular interest, are how the views on race and abortion shifted so dramatically over time and the reasons for it.
  • edited January 2021
    Absolutely:
    "...Southern churches, warped by generations of theological evolution necessary to accommodate slavery and segregation, were all too willing to offer their political assistance to a white nationalist program. Southern religious institutions would lead a wave of political activism that helped keep white nationalism alive inside an increasingly unfriendly national climate. Forget about Goldwater, Nixon or Reagan. No one played as much of a role in turning the South red as the leaders of the Southern Baptist Church..."
    Makes my blood boil. And before moving out here, I was called upon to fill the pulpit on a Sunday many times at a local, mostly black church in my hometown. People are people. With aspirations and foibles. With a shared humanity. And just lately, one particular white bag of filth from out of town decided that the church building needed to go up in flames. But you can't kill the church by burning buildings, you turd. The church is the PEOPLE.
    https://www.wwlp.com/news/local-news/hampden-county/maine-man-arrested-on-several-charges-including-attempted-arson-in-fire-at-mlk-church-in-springfield/


  • Howdy folks,

    Hope everyone is staying safe and getting their shot as soon as possible.

    I've long believed that the Evangicals are not even Christians, but indeed are worshipers of the Anti-Christ. Jesus preached love and tolerance, while they preach hatred and intolerance. Oh, they'll deny it from here to hell and back, but ask yourself, 'would Jesus turn his back on a gay? or transgender? or person of color? or a person of another faith?

    and so it goes,

    peace and wear the damn mask,

    rono
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