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T. Rowe Price Capital Appreciation and Income Fund in registration

edited July 2023 in Fund Discussions

Portfolio Managers:

David R. Giroux
Farris G. Shuggi

The filing is dated October 1.

Bloomberg has a symbol listed:TCIFX

This 2017 filing listed the fund symbols at that time:


  • Huh, interesting. Maybe this would pair nicely with PRWCX? IE, one is more heavily skewed towards equities, the other more skewed towards FI ... almost like the Wellington/Wellsley thing?
  • TheShadow said:


    I posted some news about this fund some time ago, then there was no activity concerning it until I just discovered this filing.

    I must've missed that posting. Thanks for the update -- worth keeping on the radar!
  • ...Maybe this would pair nicely with PRWCX?
    Or, coupled with TCAF it could have some resemblance to PRWCX (?)
  • Thanks for making me aware of TCIFX! Giroux is equity and Shuggi is an equity quant and allocation guy... so who is the income manager? 60% of the portfolio is income.
  • edited July 2023
    Giroux is becoming TRP’s “super-star”. TRP has ramped up their advertising on Bloomberg of late. And they’ve gotten a bit more aggressive in pushing fund performance. AFAIK, Giroux (or his likeness) hasn’t appeared in any of the ads - YET. (Give ‘em time.)
  • edited July 2023
    hank said:

    Giroux is becoming TRP’s “super-star”. TRP has ramped up their advertising on Bloomberg of late. And they’ve gotten a bit more aggressive in pushing fund performance. AFAIK, Giroux (or his likeness) hasn’t appeared in any of the ads - YET. (Give ‘em time.)

    I've sadly not watched BBG in months, but that concerns me.....
  • rforno said:

    I've sadly not watched BBG in months, but that concerns me.....

    On the first point +1. You haven’t missed anything.

    On the second point, I guess it’s the frequency more than the content of TRP’s latest ad. Most of the big players run them. Personally, I enjoy those from Dodge & Cox best.:)

    T. Rowe Price ”You Can’t Buy” 2023 Spot TV Ad
  • I fearlessly predict I will own TCIFX.
  • edited July 2023
    Note the September 2017 link to MFO @TheShadow provided. Quite an extensive discussion / though I have no recollection of it. Sounds like Giroux was already larger than life way back than.
  • The other guy on the fund is the head quant for T. Rowe.
  • Why delayed since 2017?
  • from the new prospectus: "Subject to certain exceptions, the fund is currently closed to new investors and new accounts. Investors who currently hold shares of the fund may continue to purchase additional shares."

  • Ach! Indeed.
  • edited July 2023
    TCIFX.... closed before inception??? or misprint? PRWCX has no income manager either so Giroux will do both equity & bond my guess.

    Why so long delayed inception since 2017??
  • Just reached out to the folks at Price to see if there's anything they're allowed to share during the quiet period. If so, I'll pass it along.
  • edited July 2023
    Keep in mind that the TCIFX symbol, institutional share class, was indicated on the 2017 Summary Prospectus. Even Bloomberg indicates the symbol listing is pending.

    The 2023 Registration Statement for the fund indicates the symbols are to be determined (TBD).
  • It's not all that unusual for new funds to be closed from the start "subject to certain exceptions" (quoting the preliminary TRP prospectus). Often it is to restrict those funds to internal use.

    Vanguard was a little clearer when it launched its "Advice Select Funds" - closed to everyone except those working through a Vanguard advisor (robo or "real").

    Similarly, Fidelity has its Strategic Adviser® funds, where the prospectuses read: The fund is not available for sale to the general public. They too are open to investors working through Fidelity advisors ("enrolled in Fidelity Wealth Services"). Fidelity also has its Fidelity Series Funds, closed except to its funds of funds and collective management trusts.

    It will be interesting to see whether TRP makes this fund available to Summit Select (and higher) level investors, just as it has opened PRWCX and all its other closed funds to these investors.
  • Curious David....any response from TR Price?
  • I think the previous post was for @David_Snowball .

    On a separate note, is anybody tracking TCAF daily relative price performance to that of PRWCX? That is, how is TCAF price action relative to its category when PRWCX over or underperforms its category?
  • There's a limit to what the guys are allowed to talk about just now. I did ask about two things that I thought were permissible. First was why they delayed in 2017 and the second was why the fund is flagged as closed to new investors.

    A1: The postponement of the launch of Capital Appreciation and Income Fund launch in 2017 was due to an internal job transition involving the fund’s then co-portfolio manager. We wanted to be sure that all necessary support resources for the fund, including investment personnel, were firmly in place, so a decision was made to delay.

    The answer on the closure was, as I suspected, a typo. I think they were copying and pasting from the PRWCX perspectus.
  • edited November 2023

    Thanks for making me aware of TCIFX! Giroux is equity and Shuggi is an equity quant and allocation guy...

    Jeff Ptak from M* asked David Giroux: "With the benefit of hindsight, what do you think you might have urged your younger self to do and conversely, warn the younger you to refrain from doing, given all that you’ve learned along the way?"

    David Giroux's partial response:
    "Second, I think I would tell myself to work more closely with the quantitative resources at T. Rowe earlier in my career. I really didn’t do anything on that front really until late ‘09. I joke with people internally. There was a BFS era, before Farris Shuggi, and AFS, after Farris Shuggi, period at CAF. I’ve worked very, very closely with Farris Shuggi and the rest of the quant team at T. Rowe on so many proprietary projects over the last 14 years that have really meaningfully, positively contributed to CAF’s performance. Honestly, it changed the way I managed CAF for the better over time."
  • Fun thread! Thanks for all of this info.
  • "Investment Objective(s)

    The fund seeks total return through a combination of income and capital appreciation."

    No joke!

    Why do they need this fund when they have PRWCX, an allocation fund, with flexible mandate?
  • They want your money: PRWCX is closed.
  • TCIFX is the "Wellesley" version with 30-50% stocks, 50-70% fixed-income. Ticker TCIFX is not recognized by MFO, M*, Yahoo Finance, but Bloomberg shows it as pending.

    The SAME 2 managers (Giroux, Shuggi) are listed now as in 2017. So, the excuse of some "...internal job transition involving the fund's then co-portfolio manager" may only hint that Giroux "demanded" a better role for him, and "got it" through the creation of is separate unit within Rowe Price "for him". Giroux is now a big shot at Rowe Price (CIO, unit head, portfolio manager). Now, he can play ball again - TCAF, TCIFX, etc.
  • edited November 2023
    Giroux definitely showed how to manage one’s career - it is not sufficient to be a high performer at one’s job!

    Income and Capital Appreciation Fund is Not duplicative of PRWCX.
  • Currently, uncle David says there are selective opportunities in Yoots and Junk bonds.
  • a2z
    edited December 2023
    am interested in knowing why the new PRCFX would be appealing to existing long-tenured PRWCX holders.

    A. most importantly, it does not seem giroux will be using this unique time to go into small-mid cap space, given the very low ~$25M AUM. everything indicates they will want to re-use research & tradedesk effort already being put into PRWCX, which means more of the same LC growth.

    B. there does not seem to be the allocation to international which PRWCX has latitude\mandate. (PRCFX showing 100% domestic as of 20nov2023)

    C. the equity mix seems similar (both min. 50% aspiration).

    d. slightly smaller expenses, which is more like the PRWCX institutional version.
  • edited December 2023
    Well, if I throw anything into it, it will be because of the weightier bond portfolio, and less in equities. I can take advantage of Giroux's expertise, and still invest a bit more conservatively. Not going to give up PRWCX, however! :)
    Still DYING to see the ACTUAL holdings.
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