Charlie Kirk's Legacy

bee

He took his strong opinions to the campuses of America and challenged the younger generation to develop, defend and debate their own beliefs.

Here he is debating with Gavin Newsom:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o3A7fg23dz4

A young life cut down by an assassin. A very sad day for freedom of speech and our country.

When our differing thoughts stop colliding. When we stop acknowledging our differences. When we no longer can find a middle ground where we all can live respectfully...civil war ensues.

Mark

"A life cut down by an assassin. A very sad day for freedom of speech."

"In 2023, Kirk said that gun deaths are unfortunately “worth it” for the preservation of Second Amendment rights in the United States of America. He was speaking after a mass shooting killed six people, including children, at the Christian Covenant School in Nashville, Tennessee."

Indeed. I don't believe that we should go around killing each other over our beliefs.

Did you have similar feelings the day a MN lawmaker, her husband and the family dog were gunned down by an assassin?

a2z

doesn't really help things when ~40% of the nation simply follows potus\rightwing media on which innocent deaths deserve empathy.
maybe alex jones can chime in.

bee

Mark said:

Did you have similar feelings the day a MN lawmaker, her husband and the family dog were gunned down by an assassin?

Both of these incidences you referenced are unacceptable. Personally, I don't agree with Charlie's point. No death by violence is ever acceptable.

Sobering stat:

The U.S. has averaged more than one mass shooting per day since the start of 2023, per the archive, which puts the nation on track to exceed the 647 recorded mass shootings of 2022.

The second amendment provides citizens the right to bare arms to defend themselves against violence, not perpetrate violence.

Murder by a mass shooter or an assassin is against the law. Defending oneself it not.

I queried your quote and found the following quotes from a Newsweek article I will link.:

"You will never live in a society when you have an armed citizenry and you won't have a single gun death," Kirk said at a Turning Point USA Faith event on Wednesday, as reported by Media Matters for America. "That is nonsense. It's drivel. But I am—I think it's worth it.

"I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational. Nobody talks like this. They live in a complete alternate universe."

https://newsweek.com/charlie-kirk-says-gun-deaths-worth-it-2nd-amendment-1793113

Charlie paid the ultimate price for thinking gun violence deaths "are worth it".

gman57

I lost my faith after Newtown, if a massacre of TWENTY 6-7 year old's and 6 adults did NOTHING to change our outlook on sensible gun safety I'm afraid nothing will.

hank

Thank you @bee for posting this. I didn’t know who Charlie Kirk was. But from the clips I watched for an hour or so last evening he appears to have been an extraordinarily gifted communicator. I might have enjoyed hearing him speak even though I probably disagreed with 90% of his views. One more senseless tragedy in an unending string of tragedies - from school kids to political leaders.

DrVenture

Charlie Kirk was, dare I say it, dead wrong about gun rights. Like so many others, he missed the point about The Second Amendment and gun control. It is not black and white. If it turns out that the rifle he was shot with was made of parts bought from gun shows and untraceable, and the shooter is never found, would that be acceptable? These are the things that many fight to preserve. And availability of high-powered devices with no purpose but mass killing. Not for hunting or defense, but to kill as many humans as possible in the shortest time.

The second amendment is only 27 words. It says nothing about mental state or age or much of anything. In a literal reading, one would be constitutionally obligated to let a 7-year old own automatic weapons. Or allow a prison inmate to have a gun. Both being vulnerable members of society. The Second Amendment would not, in a literal reading, allow us to take a gun from someone with mental illness and violent tendencies. Or prevent ownership based on prior convictions.

Yet, many use a strictly literal interpretation to argue against any gun constraints. There is no rational dialogue in that mindset. Though I bet that he and his assailant were in agreement on this topic.

DrVenture

I would add that I grew up when you could walk into a Walmart, show out-of-state ID that proved your age, and walk out with a rifle or handgun. No one would even remember your name. I used to walk to school with a rifle, store it at school, then go to gun club after school ended for the day. This is not those times any more.

DrVenture

gman57 said:

I lost my faith after Newtown, if a massacre of TWENTY 6-7 year old's and 6 adults did NOTHING to change our outlook on sensible gun safety I'm afraid nothing will.

That really gets to the point!

davidrmoran

I am almost dumbfounded at the reactions to Kirk's murder, who made his lucrative career loudly and repeatedly saying vile ugly things about women, nonwhites, progtards, and much more, all under the guise of debate.

Old_Joe

Well, that pretty well describes almost all of the right-wing commentators, doesn't it?

DrVenture

I agree with you, David. No one wants to say that part out loud. And be accused of attacking a victim, during a time of grief. Give it another day and things will be different, I am sure.

The guy abetted social divisions, and wrangled votes for an authoritarian. He turned up the temperature, never down. The fact he may have been eloquent about it, is not really relevant.

I have a female friend who once said, about NFL players who sued over brain injuries, that "they knew what they were getting into". If she ever mentions Charlie Kirk to me, I will say, "He knew what he was getting into". That'll be a hoot!

Crash

DrVenture said:

I would add that I grew up when you could walk into a Walmart, show out-of-state ID that proved your age, and walk out with a rifle or handgun. No one would even remember your name. I used to walk to school with a rifle, store it at school, then go to gun club after school ended for the day. This is not those times any more.

Yes, the nutjobs have hijacked the whole environment. I taught kids to shoot .22 cal rifles at targets at summer camp in central Florida in the 1970s. No tests, requirements, credentials necessary. Of course, SAFETY first!

Some switch was flipped, something clicked and changed the entire Big Picture. These days, the violent barf-heads rule the day. Sad and ridiculous.

FD1000

All I know is that I’ve read several posters on this site openly calling for Trump’s death. I’ve said multiple times that it’s unacceptable—yet no one here has acknowledged it. Just because some people act like extremists doesn’t give YOU the right to say it.

I completely disagree with Obama and Biden, but I never wished for their deaths. Yet many of my Democrat friends—highly educated people—are openly wishing for Trump’s death. That’s pure TDS.

Crash

Is he dead yet?
TDS? Totally degrading shit. That's what Orange One has made of this country. As I've noted before, Dems and Reps always have had differences. Trump is a different sort of beast entirely. Unhinged, amoral, un-human. He brings slime and harm, wherever he goes.

We used to complain and laugh about GWB. He could speak Spanish and owned a soul, at least.

Mona

In July, Charlie Kirk called for the full release of the Epstein files and criticized the DOJ and FBI’s lack of transparency. Trump should honor his wish.

gman57

"In July, Charlie Kirk called for the full release of the Epstein files and criticized the DOJ and FBI’s lack of transparency."

Hmmmm, now he's dead.

I don't remember this much hate flowing around before Trump. If the shoe fits...

FD1000

Crash said:

Is he dead yet?
TDS? Totally degrading shit. That's what Orange One has made of this country. As I've noted before, Dems and Reps always have had differences. Trump is a different sort of beast entirely. Unhinged, amoral, un-human. He brings slime and harm, wherever he goes.

We used to complain and laugh about GWB. He could speak Spanish and owned a soul, at least.

Trump is in because the left lost its way with DEI, immigration, indoctrination education, and canceling people.
You continue to be immature and extreme.
Remember, this will bring more hate and actions by the current admin because people like you.

Mark

Um, come again

"And Trump — who has repeatedly incited mob violence since his first campaign — clearly wants to use the Kirk killing as an excuse for more violence and intimidation. “We have radical left lunatics out there,” declared Trump, “and we just have to beat the hell out of them.” An utterly malign appeal to mob violence from a sitting president, particularly outrageous since no one knows who killed Kirk and why.

And let’s be clear: everyone — Republicans, business leaders, and more — who decided, in effect, to forget about Jan. 6 helped set the stage for this malignancy.

So while we want to know what lay behind Kirk’s assassination, the important story right now is Trump’s intent to use the killing to incite violence against anyone who stands in his way."

Waving the Bloody Shirt - Krugman, Substack.com

DrVenture

Yep, he is going to incite more violence and lament when it happens, and doesn't go his way. He will characterize all those who do not agree with him, based on the worst individuals out there. What happened to "good people on both sides", when he was making excuses for a right-wing nut job who ran over a young woman for exercising he First Amendment rights? Or covering for white supremacists who deny the holocaust?

If Trump is to do that, why not judge all Trump voters by those who attacked the Capitol on Jan 6? People who do not want democracy or free elections? Charlie Kirk was a rabble-rouser on the political right, who spurred on the same sort of people that commit violence. Charlie Kirk never counseled moderation. There are strong indications that he was anti-semitic, as well.

No one will benefit from Trump waving the bloody shirt. Absolutely no one.