Tesla vote on Thursday

DrVenture

Imagine the childish meltdown that will occur if Musk loses this vote!

His Grok AI is the worst rated AI currently available. His promises on his Telsa robots and self-driving cars are ridiculous. And the loss of federal subsidies are set to crush EV sales. His political trolling is not advantageous to his public businesses.
A strong case could be made that he is an impediment, not a driving force.

https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulation/tesla-board-shareholders-pay-musk-or-else-2025-11-05/

"Other major shareholders and executive-pay experts warn that the proposal represents an enormous risk to investors. The package, experts said, flouts governance principles not only because of its size but because the board is so explicitly staking Tesla’s future on one leader, with myriad conflicts of interest, who stands to consolidate unchecked power over the company. Responsible governance, they argue, requires boards to remain open to a competitive market for the best available CEO at any given time."

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2025/11/after-a-great-q3-tesla-sees-double-digit-declines-all-over-europe/

"Sales fell by double-digit margins in Sweden (89 percent), Denmark (86 percent), Belgium (69 percent), Finland (68 percent), Austria (65 percent), Switzerland (60 percent), Portugal (59 percent), Germany (54 percent), Norway (50 percent), the Netherlands (48 percent), the UK (47 percent), Italy (47 percent), and Spain (31 percent)."

https://coloradosun.com/2025/11/05/elon-musk-tesla-sales-yale-study/

"A lot, Yale researchers say, in Colorado and across the country, perhaps more than 1 million car sales"

Old_Joe

If he pays as much attention to detail on his rocket ships as he does to everything else I wouldn't want to be anywhere near one.

In fairness, that doesn't seem to be the case though. From what I've gathered he's proceeding slowly and carefully on the rockets, as one would hope, in contrast to some of the poorly designed Tesla operating systems.

He seems to just bounce around whatever attracts his interest at any particular time- Grok AI, Tesla, dismantling the government, turning "X" into a cesspool.

And for this he demands a ONE TRILLION DOLLAR salary?

DrVenture

I have to wonder what, if anything, he really contributes to SpaceX. His contribution may be simply staying out of the way of actual experts.

I read that he insisted on a "pointy" Starship, as a juvenile nod to "The Dictator". Which is not desirable as round frontal areas actually dissipate heat better. The guy is a goofball, I have a hard time imagining what his value really is.

Mark

It could be an interesting vote. He does have a strong hand however owning 15% of the voting shares.

rforno

DrVenture said:

I have to wonder what, if anything, he really contributes to SpaceX. His contribution may be simply staying out of the way of actual experts.

I read that he insisted on a "pointy" Starship, as a juvenile nod to "The Dictator". Which is not desirable as round frontal areas actually dissipate heat better. The guy is a goofball, I have a hard time imagining what his value really is.

He really is an idiot, isn't he. Immature cosplayer in whatever 'job' he claims to have.

If the company rewards this guy when he's distracted by so many other ventures, it reeks of negligence/incompetence by the board and should be grounds for shareholder lawsuits filed before the BoD meeting even adjourns.

a2z

i cant waste time studying musk, so the quick summaries here are very good.

https://montanaskeptic.substack.com/p/tesla-takedown-redux-something-big

DrVenture

@a2z

Great link. I knew that the situation was a bit dire, for TSLA. But, it may be worse than I thought.

The notion that TSLA shareholders should be excited about robotaxis and Optimus robots is comical. Look at all the exaggeration, delays and outright lies that have emanated from Musk previously. The Cybertruck? An abject failure. I read recently that the only sales of that POS are being forced by Musk onto his own companies, skewing sales results. There are estimated to be 10,000 sitting unsold on lots.

The cybertaxi , delayed by many years, is nothing like what was promised. Why does anyone trust this guy?

WABAC

The Norwegian sovereign wealth fund has already voted against the pay package. I don't know what percentage of shares they own.

Old_Joe

From the Wall Street Journal:

"With a 1.2% stake in Tesla, the fund is the sixth-largest institutional investor behind others such as Vanguard and BlackRock, according to FactSet. It is the first major institutional investor to disclose how it voted."

WABAC

Old_Joe said:

From the Wall Street Journal:

"With a 1.2% stake in Tesla, the fund is the sixth-largest institutional investor behind others such as Vanguard and BlackRock, according to FactSet. It is the first major institutional investor to disclose how it voted."

Thanks for the info.

I don't expect much from the usual suspects.

WABAC

WABAC said:

Old_Joe said:

From the Wall Street Journal:

"With a 1.2% stake in Tesla, the fund is the sixth-largest institutional investor behind others such as Vanguard and BlackRock, according to FactSet. It is the first major institutional investor to disclose how it voted."

Thanks for the info.

I don't expect much from the usual suspects.

BTW: I forgot about this tab at M*, which is still free. https://www.morningstar.com/stocks/xnas/tsla/ownership

msf

I don't expect much from the usual suspects.

That depends on whether they follow the guidance of the duopoly of proxy advisors, Glass Lewis and ISS.

Proxy firm Glass Lewis has recommended that Tesla (TSLA.O) shareholders vote against the proposed $1 trillion pay package for CEO Elon Musk, days after ISS also urged investors to reject what might be the largest-ever compensation plan awarded to a company chief.

https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulation/proxy-firm-glass-lewis-joins-iss-urging-vote-against-musks-1-trillion-pay-2025-10-20/

Old_Joe

Going to be fun to watch, anyway.

DrVenture

The first question is, will Musk walk away if he is denied? I doubt it.

The second question is, who wants the job, given the challenges faced?

a2z

i'll take the job for 10% cash upfront...as an at-will employee.

but on an hourly and effort basis, tesla directors would rate the wealthiest 'workers' in america.
rubberstamping executed in few hours\days per year, repeat for a decade.

WABAC

msf said:

I don't expect much from the usual suspects.

That depends on whether they follow the guidance of the duopoly of proxy advisors, Glass Lewis and ISS.

Proxy firm Glass Lewis has recommended that Tesla (TSLA.O) shareholders vote against the proposed $1 trillion pay package for CEO Elon Musk, days after ISS also urged investors to reject what might be the largest-ever compensation plan awarded to a company chief.

https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulation/proxy-firm-glass-lewis-joins-iss-urging-vote-against-musks-1-trillion-pay-2025-10-20/

Stay tuned

hank

In fairness, that doesn't seem to be the case though. From what I've gathered he's proceeding slowly and carefully on the rockets, as one would hope”

Well, subject to debate.

DrVenture

Who brought the hotdogs and marshmallows?

Old_Joe

Well, let's be fair on that- rockets are notorious for blowing up a fair amount until they finally get everything to work dependably. The point that I was making is that, so far at least, no one has died during the development phase.

Compare that to the Tesla situation, where he has sent poorly designed "self-driving" equipment out into the real world.

sma3

My favorite MuskRat post recently

"Control of Tesla could affect the future of civilization"

He demanded door handles flush with car and that could not be opened from outside without battery power, causing multiple deaths and infants locked inside hot cars.

Rather than spend $2500 or more to install radar and Lidar on cars ( and those that had it earlier were deactivated) he demanded only cameras ( $400) causing multiple deadly crashes in low light dusty and glare conditions with FSD .

The salary is bad enough but he wants 29% of the stock. Many reports I have read say the criteria for him to be granted that are very flexible and the board is likely to do so regardless of company's performance.

Old_Joe

@sma3- thanks for documenting some of the Tesla design flaws that I was referring to.

rforno

sma3 said:

My favorite MuskRat post recently

"Control of Tesla could affect the future of civilization"

He demanded door handles flush with car and that could not be opened from outside without battery power, causing multiple deaths and infants locked inside hot cars.

Rather than spend $2500 or more to install radar and Lidar on cars ( and those that had it earlier were deactivated) he demanded only cameras ( $400) causing multiple deadly crashes in low light dusty and glare conditions with FSD .

The salary is bad enough but he wants 29% of the stock. Many reports I have read say the criteria for him to be granted that are very flexible and the board is likely to do so regardless of company's performance.

Yes yes, but the cars can make fart noises and light up for the holidays, isn't that enough??? /sarc

hank

Old_Joe said:

Well, let's be fair on that- rockets are notorious for blowing up a fair amount until they finally get everything to work dependably.

How many times did Werner von Braun’s Saturn V blow up prior to being approved for manned flight?

Oh. I get the point @Old_Joe. I don’t like Musk’s politics but admire his innovative approaches to automotive, space, communications, tunnel construction and a lot more. He was a co-founder of Pay Pal - which I still use. I had high speed broad band internet two full years earlier than would have were it not for his Starlink project.

And Von Braun, the architect of NASA’s Saturn V? Former German Nazi. Cut his teeth building the V2 rocket that wrought fear and destruction upon London.

Old_Joe

□√   All of the above are true

hank

@Old_Joe = AI (Actual Intelligence)

Old_Joe

Following are short excerpts from a current report in The New York Times:

Elon Musk Wins $1 Trillion Tesla Payday

Tesla shareholders on Thursday approved a plan that could make Elon Musk the world’s first trillionaire, two days after New Yorkers elected a tax-the-rich candidate as their next mayor.

These discrete moments offered strikingly different lessons about America and who deserves how much of its wealth.

At Tesla, based in the Austin, Texas, area, shareholders have largely bought into a winner-takes-all version of capitalism, agreeing by a wide margin to give Mr. Musk shares worth almost a trillion dollars if the company under his management achieves ambitious financial and operational goals over the next decade.

DrVenture

The chance that he meets "ambitious financial and operational goals" is probably about nil.

Between the ketamine, weed and whatever else he imbibes, to control the depression and ADHD, I have doubts that he even lasts ten years.

Or he goes the way of David Carradine.

WABAC

DrVenture said:

The chance that he meets "ambitious financial and operational goals" is probably about nil.

Between the ketamine, weed and whatever else he imbibes, to control the depression and ADHD, I have doubts that he even lasts ten years.

Or he goes the way of David Carradine.

I've always thought of Howard Hughes.

I can't say I'm surprised by the vote.

I was pleased to note on the M* ownership tab that Fido was not among the top 20 "institutional" owners of Tesla. I try to avoid a lot of it, but it still shows up here and there.

We shall see how it does now that the subsidies have ended.

DrVenture

It resides in a lot of my growth and/or index funds. A Morningstar X-ray, shows that I own quite a bit by default.

DrVenture

hank said:

Old_Joe said:

Well, let's be fair on that- rockets are notorious for blowing up a fair amount until they finally get everything to work dependably.

How many times did Werner von Braun’s Saturn V blow up prior to being approved for manned flight?
...

And Von Braun, the architect of NASA’s Saturn V? Former German Nazi. Cut his teeth building the V2 rocket that wrought fear and destruction upon London.

msf

I was pleased to note on the M* ownership tab that Fido was not among the top 20 "institutional" owners of Tesla.

FMR is #10 on the list of major institutional owners.
Goede Capital, spun off from Fidelity and the firm sub-advising Fidelity's index funds, is #4.
The largest shareholder is not an institution. It is Musk.

https://www.morningstar.com/stocks/xnas/tsla/ownership
https://institutional.fidelity.com/app/funds/managerinformation/667/2365.html (Geode)

From the cited NYTimes article:

Mr. Musk also probably had the support of many smaller investors who retained their stock despite slumping profits and car sales — and as Mr. Musk’s foray into politics in the last year, in support of Mr. Trump, alienated many people.

“The people who have stayed as shareholders after all this are the people who have drunk the Elon Kool-Aid,” said Randall Peterson, a professor of organizational behavior at the London Business School.

Not just a win for Musk and his (current) 15% stake, but apparently a "win" for the small investor as well.