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Anyone talk investments with friends?

My few pals generally discuss health and politics way more than money. Yesterday one of two best friends who has revealed he is 60/40 admitted he only checks his portfolio when the monthly statement is issued. Had no idea about recent market conditions. Other friend is very ill and in a care facility, he told me yesterday that he will run out of money in 2.5 years but had a plan to generate “ 10-12% return from his portfolio. He watches CNBC all day. I guess my point is that, unless one is a boglehead,,, we all invest in way that is uniquely personal.

Comments

  • edited November 18
    I often get weird blank stares, if I bring up investing. Weird because most of my friends know/suspect that I am way more versed than they are. Maybe they think that I am bragging. I have been told, "I do not pay attention to that stuff, I have a FA".

    Then, I realize that I really do not want them acting (half-heartedly) on things that I might say, without proper monitoring and follow through.

    I do have one friend who I talk with about such things, but we have very different approaches.
  • IMO even bogleheads invest very different from each other surprisingly.

    Most of my friends don't care or pay attention to anything around investing or retirement.

    that said they know i pay attention and have asked me for information here or there. I have a few books that i recommend or lend out. most of the time even if they read them, it doesn't bring about much discussion. or we'll talk about it.

    whats funny is that I know pretty well about half a dozen financial advisors and even they don't like talking shop. The one friend who is largely a insurance salesperson moreso an advisor and I have pretty great conversations because he is genuinely curious and feels like he's been led astray somewhat by the industry he's in.

    The guys that taught me were older gentlemen. they loved talking this and its what got me to start paying attention.

    people want conversations around 10X'ing on some stock, nobody wants to talk about what trowe price, vanguard, or capital group is doing in the world of mutual funds and ETF's.

  • edited November 18
    A very good near life-long friend (since college days) got me interested in investing 40+ years ago. He was far ahead of me then. So I’m ever grateful. We much more enjoy talking about fishing, travel, sports when together. We don’t dwell on investing, though it occassionally comes up in a casual manner. I know him to be a more stable individual than myself. So he might make 6 changes a year in his positioning while I probably make that many in a month. Making generous use of Fidelity’s “baskets”, I currently have 30+ holdings - my friend fewer than 10. We don’t compare numbers, but I’d guess he’s done a lot better than me with a fraction of the time & effort.:)
  • @hank. Don’t you think we put the time into this stuff for more than just the possibility of extra profit? I hate to say it’s for fun or pleasure,,,, but we enjoy it in some perverse way.
  • Yes. I know people who gamble in the traditional way. I do not. Except in the stock market, where it is practically assured that I win in the long term. And I have the statements to prove it! lol
  • larryB said:

    @hank. Don’t you think we put the time into this stuff for more than just the possibility of extra profit? I hate to say it’s for fun or pleasure,,,, but we enjoy it in some perverse way.

    It’s either a game or an addiction. Perhaps both.
  • @hank. Both. My other current addiction are Korean coffee sticks.
  • I have a neighbor who is a generation ahead of me and who enjoys discussing investments and taxes. He and his wife, both in their 80s, still actively invest in dividend-paying stocks (oil, tech, and utilities) and do fairly well. One thing I find nutty about him is that he never wants to sell a profitable stock in his taxable portfolio, fearing huge capital gains. He wants to keep it until he and his wife pass, when the portfolio will be given to his children at a revised cost-basis, thus eliminating decades of CGs (and taxes).

    Hopefully, this strategy works out for his family. I rib him that they should enjoy his investment success and spend some it on themselves. But he is set in his way.
  • DrVenture said:

    Yes. I know people who gamble in the traditional way. I do not. Except in the stock market, where it is practically assured that I win in the long term. And I have the statements to prove it! lol

    I assure you your odds are better than they would be with DraftKings.

  • as FIRE, the youngsters prefer my career advice to investment advice !
    when it comes to investments, they would rather hear\opine on what i have been doing, rather than what i would do in their situation (since that has previously been rather boring). its a good vent for what has stunk the most.
  • Ya, I'm babysitting $$$ for three others, now. The amount doesn't add up to much. But they didn't even have a clue about how to get in. I often "discuss" via email with one. He has the most at stake, still under $100k. But he is quick to confess that he un-learns it all as soon as we hang up the phone, and blames it on his ADHD. My son is afflicted with it, too. I dunno how such folks survive, but they DO.
  • @Crash- maybe follow up phone with an email covering the main points of your conversation? He could save those for future reference.
  • Old_Joe said:

    @Crash- maybe follow up phone with an email covering the main points of your conversation? He could save those for future reference.

    YES! EVENTUALLY, he'll get to them. Might be 3 weeks old, stale. Not much of an "Executive" brain function to work with, so focusing on something--- particularly something uninteresting to him--- is a challenge. (In fact, I just sent him highlights by email last night after watching the Gundlach thing which @hank put on the board.)
  • 10-4... great minds think at least 70% of the time.
  • @crash. I babysit our daughter’s portfolio. I have to remind myself that she is 34 and not 76. She is both a highly paid busy professional and profoundly disinterested. Makes my role very awkward.
  • You guys are hardly alone... Catch22 has been remarking on this for many years now.
  • None of my friends like to talk about investing. From the little that they’ve said, it seems that they all use financial advisors. I’ve got no problem with that, but find investing very interesting and would enjoy talking about it.
  • Some of my friends periodically ask me what they should do with their investments. I usually limit my responses to something like, "What do you have in mind and why?", "That would be an okay choice for a small portion of your total holdings.", or most often, "I am not qualified to advise you and refuse to jeopardize our friendship over something like this; even the best investors in the world can make terrible mistakes."

    But about four or five weeks ago I had an unusual conversation with my nephew, who works as a tradesman and has a wife and two very young kids. To prep and sell their home of seven years they moved into a condo, soon to move to another state for better employment. I expressed concern about carrying both rents, to which my nephew replied "Don't worry, I have money saved", and then showed me the four holdings using his cell phone. The two top holdings were Bitcoin and Ethereum! He had held everything long enough to turn roughly $25K into six figures.

    I was stunned, elated, and unable to contain myself. "How did you select these holdings", "What was the advice you got (from a friend) that convinced you", "Do you know anything about what these companies do", Do you have any idea how incredibly unusual your returns are", I asked. His answers confirmed he is a total neophyte when it comes to investing. Once I caught my breath I suggested he take the bulk of his winnings off the table to pause and regroup, not only to lock in the gains but also to maintain his family's stability during this precarious time. While I felt strongly this was the right thing to do, in the back of my mind I also knew it is tough to tell anyone who has seen so much success to make such a big change in direction.

    In the last week the market has made a big change in direction and those holdings have plummeted. Enough to more than cover the taxes my nephew would have to pay for liquidating his holdings a month ago. I have no idea whether or not he took my advice.
  • OMG. So fortunate, but then... Beginner's luck. I do hope he got out in time.
  • Tarwheel said:

    None of my friends like to talk about investing. From the little that they’ve said, it seems that they all use financial advisors. I’ve got no problem with that, but find investing very interesting and would enjoy talking about it.

    its the same here. most will say "our guy says we are doing great" and have no idea whether they are or not and are just happy that someone says its doing great.

    I'm not interested in this because i'm trying to beat the system or "win the game". I just enjoy the math if I had to guess a reason. when someone does express interest and want to talk to me it's usually because they think if i'm interested it's because i have some out-performing strategy and they want in. and then are largely disappointed when i'm like figure out your risk profile and build a well diversified allocation based on your tolerance. Check your risk profile again 5 years later and make changes if appropriate. not what they are expecting to hear.

    I have someone who wants to talk with me at Thanksgiving who sold a few investment properties and wants to talk about what they should do with this money. boy o boy are they going to probably be disappointed when i'm not like "well you see you need to load up on fartcoin and 3X Beyond Meat leveraged ETF's"
  • edited 1:02PM
    our guy says we are doing great "

    That raises an interesting question. Assuming this is for someone in retirement, what would ”doing great” mean YTD?

    Someone sitting 100% in cash would think 5% YTD is “great.”

    Playing in longer dated CDs …. maybe 7%?

    With 100% in a balanced fund 10% might appear “great.”

    For an actively managed broadly diversified portfolio +15% might be “great “

    With an hefty exposure to gold / precious metals, +30% YTD might represent “great”.



    Disclosure: My performance has not been “great”, but is OK. I’ve managed to step on my own toes a few times this year.
  • Back to the question; is good enough good enough? Or; what are we trying to accomplish? Hanks definitions of what doing great means to different types of investors is excellent. Or; what does winning mean?
  • Winning, as it relates to investing, means having the financial means to achieve your goals.
    Beating some arbitrary benchmark is irrelevant.
  • edited 2:10PM

    Winning, as it relates to investing, means having the financial means to achieve your goals.
    Beating some arbitrary benchmark is irrelevant.

    True to a degree. I used to play tennis with a guy that sold his business for 10-15 million in 1995. He has been invested in 90+% munis.
    He could be in 100% cash? Do you call it a win?

    Someone who read that if you have enough, don't play the stock market anymore and invested in the total bond index, BND, in the last 15 years and made 2.2% annually...is it a win?

    The biggest problem is that most can't define their goals with a specific number for performance, SD and max draw to know if they won.:-)

  • hank said:

    our guy says we are doing great "

    That raises an interesting question. Assuming this is for someone in retirement, what would ”doing great” mean YTD?

    Someone sitting 100% in cash would think 5% YTD is “great.”

    Playing in longer dated CDs …. maybe 7%?

    With 100% in a balanced fund 10% might appear “great.”

    For an actively managed broadly diversified portfolio +15% might be “great “

    With an hefty exposure to gold / precious metals, +30% YTD might represent “great”.



    Disclosure: My performance has not been “great”, but is OK. I’ve managed to step on my own toes a few times this year.

    I think most people would be even hard pressed to answer what they meant by "doing great". and that might be fine. it could be, we set up a plan and we are on track. but IMO its unfathomable to me to leave that to trusting a person who even though is maybe bound by some fiduciary "code", really can have whatever motives they want.

    In most of my circles, most people think their advisor is staring at candlestick charts shouting "buy" "sell" into a phone all day long and had their finger on the pulse of the market and is beating the pants off the market. So when they say "great!" they usually think they are beating some benchmark because their guy is uniquely intelligent enough to position them in that way.

  • edited 6:22PM

    Winning, as it relates to investing, means having the financial means to achieve your goals.
    Beating some arbitrary benchmark is irrelevant.


    To some extent the goals can be modified as return dictates: Less expensive motor vehicles, shorter vacations, $25 scotch instead of $50. 2 - 3 dolls instead of 10.

    And for some, making 2% less than the next fella and not avoiding ulcers is a fine trade off.
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