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Wells Fargo to the dudes and dudettes, we got 'da clause, arbitration baby...
Never dealt with Wells. But msf's video reminds me of why I fled Citi about 10 years ago. We had long used their credit card. At some point it seemed every call to them resulted in their trying to sell us credit card insurance. The sales pitches became increasingly high pressure. In the end, a call I initiated about an obvious accidental double-billing by a merchant evoked hysterical dog whistles from their phone rep - insisting I must have have lost my card in order for this to occur and pushing the insurance sales pitch to new highs (lows?).
24 hours later I'd dropped their account and had signed-on with Elan Financial, where we've enjoyed excellent professional service. A local bank led us to them - but we've long left that bank and continue to hold a generic Visa through Elan. Not sure about its perks - although it's free. But they have been kicking back some nice cash rewards every year based on the amount I spend on hotels traveling - the primary reason I have a credit card.
Congressional consideration of halting Wells Fargo executive payouts in light of business practices. Private citizen (me) would be in jail for fraud, yes??? Out on the street, if I could provide bond, eh?
Dear Customer: You should have read the fine print stating that you can not join a class action lawsuit against the "bank" regarding opening an account with our institution. >>>I have not read the account contract, but would hope that a customer has certain other rights related to fraud. Wells Fargo requested dismissal of a class action lawsuit regarding fraudulent accounts opened for unknowing customers. One hell of a way to operate a business, eh?
ADD: 11-26-16 (You didn't sign fraudulent acct. contract, too bad; its still a binding agreement. Is this the state of "law" today in this country? Is this really the mindset of Wells Fargo? Run away from this bank as fast as you are able. )
Thank for the reminder. Three weeks ago I got an updated CC contract from Citibank with a one-time opt out offer:
You have the right to reject this arbitration provision. ... You can reject arbitration by writing to us .... Your letter must be postmarked on or before 01/05/2017. We will not close your account if you reject this [provision]. You do not have the right to reject any other changes in the attached Card Agreement.
Whenever you get legalize from a bank, it pays to read it closely.
I'm sending in my arbitration rejection letter. I suggest others check account term notices they may have gotten from banks.
A related follow up to the "you can't sue us, cause.........; even though we committed fraud" Do these folks (Wells Fargo) really expect me to be future customer or to recommend them? Is this the state of the business legal climate today? This requires "legislation"? IMHO, this still remains a very smelly circumstance and fully disgusting.
Not to sound like I'm putting up a straw man, but yes, this requires legislation, because it is limiting Wells Fargo's (and all other banks') freedom of contract.
Hey, WF disclosed the arbitration clause. What more do you want? Caveat emptor and all that laissez-faire stuff. They say there's a sucker born every minute, and it's WF's Constitution-given right to take 'em for what they're worth, so long as they sign on the dotted line. After all, banks are people too, they got them thar rights. (In case you couldn't tell, that was sarcastic.)
I support the CFPB. I think that these arbitration terms "shock the conscience" (at least when applied to fraud). So they should be declared void by the courts. But we're in a time where even Lochner is making a comeback. If doing what's fair for people entails legislation, so be it.
(Lochner is a 1905 case that held that the government doesn't have the power to limit workers to 60 hour weeks; more generally that government's power to regulate business contracts - such as between banks and customers - is severely constrained. For 3/4 of a century it was widely discredited across the spectrum, from Brandeis to Scalia.)
Will be waiting for this whole path of human actions to become a movie.....And the band played on. Kinda a "Game of Thrones" thing. Other items too numerous to list, aside from these "bigger" stories below. Wells stock took a hit of about -15% beginning with CEO testimony before congress until the elections; and has since moved up about +24%, although taking a 5% hit today, as of this write. The good traders are making money with this, eh?
Wells Fargo "TBTF" plan fails. FED/FDIC places restrictions regarding any expansion.
"And the beat goes on......" Damn, someone is saying at WellsFargoBank....do ya think time will be on our side and all of this will just go away?" >>>I sure hope not !
Well, I couldn't resist this near the end of this year and couldn't wait until April Fool's Day next year.
My triple smiley face award for "IRONIC" goes to Wells Fargo Bank.
Especially this statement: "How we protect against unauthorized transactions". This statement should indicate only external unauthorized transactions; as the bank will generate the internal unauthorized transactions.
For the full WSJ article referenced (and generously borrowed from) in the above article, here's a google search (first link should be the WSJ article). Even more stories of bogus credit card charges.
From microscopic interest rates to negative amortization mortgages that customers don't understand, Wells Fargo takes every opportunity to emphasize profits over service and solid products. In other words, a lousy bank even relative to other TBTF's, and even without considering all its, um, indiscretions.
@Old_Joe ... My thininking was that fleece carried much the same meaning; and, I could not bring myself to write such a terrible word in public space even though it pretty much described what they have done. From my perspective what was done constitutes fraud and somebody (many in upper management) needs (need) to be charged ... tried ... and, if convicited serve time.
Nah, they all do bad things, when you go by this sort of action; WF was just the most egregiously and gratuitously deceitful by far, in a way worse (a little) than discrimination gouging.
Comments
24 hours later I'd dropped their account and had signed-on with Elan Financial, where we've enjoyed excellent professional service. A local bank led us to them - but we've long left that bank and continue to hold a generic Visa through Elan. Not sure about its perks - although it's free. But they have been kicking back some nice cash rewards every year based on the amount I spend on hotels traveling - the primary reason I have a credit card.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-wells-fargo-accounts-payouts-idUSKBN13G2HU
>>>I have not read the account contract, but would hope that a customer has certain other rights related to fraud.
Wells Fargo requested dismissal of a class action lawsuit regarding fraudulent accounts opened for unknowing customers. One hell of a way to operate a business, eh?
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-wellsfargo-accounts-lawsuit-idUSKBN13J1WX
ADD: 11-26-16 (You didn't sign fraudulent acct. contract, too bad; its still a binding agreement. Is this the state of "law" today in this country? Is this really the mindset of Wells Fargo? Run away from this bank as fast as you are able. )
http://boingboing.net/2016/11/25/wells-fargo-says-that-its-cust.html
I'm sending in my arbitration rejection letter. I suggest others check account term notices they may have gotten from banks.
Do these folks (Wells Fargo) really expect me to be future customer or to recommend them?
Is this the state of the business legal climate today?
This requires "legislation"?
IMHO, this still remains a very smelly circumstance and fully disgusting.
http://time.com/money/4588453/legislation-gives-wells-fargo-customers-chance-to-sue/
Hey, WF disclosed the arbitration clause. What more do you want? Caveat emptor and all that laissez-faire stuff. They say there's a sucker born every minute, and it's WF's Constitution-given right to take 'em for what they're worth, so long as they sign on the dotted line. After all, banks are people too, they got them thar rights.
(In case you couldn't tell, that was sarcastic.)
I support the CFPB. I think that these arbitration terms "shock the conscience" (at least when applied to fraud). So they should be declared void by the courts. But we're in a time where even Lochner is making a comeback. If doing what's fair for people entails legislation, so be it.
(Lochner is a 1905 case that held that the government doesn't have the power to limit workers to 60 hour weeks; more generally that government's power to regulate business contracts - such as between banks and customers - is severely constrained. For 3/4 of a century it was widely discredited across the spectrum, from Brandeis to Scalia.)
At some point, Matt Damon is going to be offered a movie role revolving around these type of folks; oh, wait; he's already been there done that, eh?
Well, I'm only the messenger again; but this stuff is...........I'll not write the words here.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/06/investing/wells-fargo-trump-regulation-tim-sloan/
Other items too numerous to list, aside from these "bigger" stories below.
Wells stock took a hit of about -15% beginning with CEO testimony before congress until the elections; and has since moved up about +24%, although taking a 5% hit today, as of this write. The good traders are making money with this, eh?
Wells Fargo "TBTF" plan fails. FED/FDIC places restrictions regarding any expansion.
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/310257-feds-slap-wells-fargo-with-banking-restrictions-after-dismantlement-plan
San Francisco officials not receiving requested status updates for helping those harmed by the greed.
http://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/SF-officials-losing-patience-with-scandal-plagued-10794593.php
Fired Wells Fargo folks.....FINRA wants to chat, please help us with this
http://www.thinkadvisor.com/2016/12/09/reps-fired-by-wells-fargo-asked-to-call-finra?slreturn=1481732368
Fired Prudential whistle blowers had warned about sham insurance policies related to Wells Fargo.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-10/wells-fargo-scandal-infects-prudential-as-whistle-blowers-sue
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/business/dealbook/wells-fargo-accusations-sham-insurance-policies.html?_r=1
Regards,
Ted
https://www.google.com/search?q=wells+fargo+together+we+ll+go+far&sa=G&hl=en&biw=1200&bih=557&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0ahUKEwiO5MeOlfTQAhUJxFQKHau8BUYQsAQIIw
EXCELLENT !!!
http://wonkette.com/609690/did-trump-and-wells-fargo-draw-each-other-for-secret-santa
>>>I sure hope not !
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2016/12/27/wells-fargo-bank-wfc-scandal-credit-scores.html
My triple smiley face award for "IRONIC" goes to Wells Fargo Bank.
Especially this statement: "How we protect against unauthorized transactions".
This statement should indicate only external unauthorized transactions; as the bank will generate the internal unauthorized transactions.
https://www.wellsfargo.com/privacy-security/fraud/protecting-you
[scroll down]
http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/economics/wells-fargo-parodies.htm
This WF gang's lacking in any class.
Glassdoor ranks Wells Fargo Bank as a great place to work. Huh ???
http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2017/01/04/wells-fargo-named-to-awesome-places-to-work-list.html
From microscopic interest rates to negative amortization mortgages that customers don't understand, Wells Fargo takes every opportunity to emphasize profits over service and solid products. In other words, a lousy bank even relative to other TBTF's, and even without considering all its, um, indiscretions.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2017/01/18/justice-department-sues-jpmorgan-chase-for-mortgage-discrimination/?utm_term=.be47545eaf55
You're reading my brainwaves again. Stop that!