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C19 vacc side effects

edited February 12 in Other Investing

Hello

We did bought more VHT along with Qqq and bngo (another biotechnology data firm) recently....

Regarding vaccines
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/expect/after.html


https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577


FYI
Imho vaccine is generally safe

Very small 0.3 - 0.6% side effects treatable vascular side effects like strokes or cardiac issues heart attacks

Expect 10-20s% have joints pain headaches fevers flu symptoms tireness especially after 2nd dose [3rd - 4th wks after first dose]


Think Brazile data has few deaths?? (Unclear if related to vaccine) After large numbers tested in late Summer fall initial studies.

Pls stay safe
«1

Comments

  • ...Um..... What?
  • Thanks for the link @johnN
    Stay safe, Derf
  • beebee
    edited February 13
    From @johnN link:
    Two BNT162b2 recipients died (one from arteriosclerosis, one from cardiac arrest), as did four placebo recipients (two from unknown causes, one from hemorrhagic stroke, and one from myocardial infarction). No deaths were considered by the investigators to be related to the vaccine or placebo.
  • @johnN

    >> Imho vaccine is generally safe

    you know, you can remove that first qualifier, as it's not actually to do with your opinion
  • LA Times: The FDA didn’t ‘approve’ Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine.
    https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-12-12/why-fda-didnt-approve-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-eua
    In the case of a vaccine, authorization can be granted if “the known and potential benefits outweigh the known and potential risks,” the FDA says.
    Some (most?) people equate that with "generally safe"; I read it as "safe enough".

    In anticipation of "look at the evidence" response, here's more from the LA Times:
    • It was 95% effective at preventing cases of COVID-19 in both Latinos and non-Latinos.

    • It was 100% effective in Black people.

    • It was 94% effective in people who were at least 56 years old. (The older you get, the greater the risk of a serious case of COVID-19.)

    • It was 95% effective in those who had at least one medical condition that made them more likely to develop a serious case of COVID-19.

    • It was 96% effective for people who were obese, another condition that makes people more vulnerable to COVID-19.

    Yet none of this was enough for the vaccine to win official FDA approval.
    One can certainly disagree with the FDA and assert that the vaccines are "generally safe", i.e. safe for general (not just emergency) use. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
  • Any kind words about Moderna ?
    Stay safe, Derf
  • Moderna vaccine uses similar mRNA technology to that of Pfizer-BioNTech for generating immune response as new antibody in human against coronavirus. In Phase III trial testing to cover various age and racial demographic in US, the vaccine showed 95% efficiency after the second booster shot.

    Israel is the first country to vaccinate their citizen early. The date on the decline of infection and hospitialization are highly encouraging.
    Close to 90% of people aged 60 and older in the country have received their first dose of Pfizer’s 2-dose vaccine so far. Now, data collected by Israel’s Ministry of Health show that there was a 41% drop in confirmed COVID-19 infections in that age group, and a 31% drop in hospitalizations from mid-January to early February.
    https://nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00316-4
    https://vox.com/22262509/israel-covid-19-vaccinations-serious-illness-decline

    Concern today is the mutation of coronavirus to other contagious variants (i.e. UK and South Africa). There is no firm data of whether these variants are more lethal. This also implies that the pace of vaccination needs to speed out to minimize the spread of the more contagious variants. Good news is that early data that mRNA-based vaccines work effectively (90%+) against these variants in the laboratory. The older technologies that is used in Astro-Zeneca and Johnson & Johnson have showed to be less effective (50%). Neveretheless these vaccines require only one shot dosage whereas Pfizer and Moderna require two shots. Mixing two different type of vaccines are being considered.

    Now Pfizer and Moderna are testing the vaccines for those under 16 so that they will be able to go back to schools with confidence. If the testing is successful, there is a chance of these students will return to school in fall 2021.
  • Sure. Its efficacy rate under trial conditions is virtually identical to Pfizer's. Along with Pfizer's vaccine, it appears to be more effective than AstraZeneca's against the South African strain. At the moment, it (along with some of the other vaccines) is the best thing available.

    According to the FDA in its EUA letter:
    Based on the safety and effectiveness data, and review of manufacturing information regarding product quality and consistency, it is reasonable to believe that Moderna COVID‑19 Vaccine may be effective. Additionally, it is reasonable to conclude, based on the totality of the scientific evidence available, that the known and potential benefits of Moderna COVID‑19 Vaccine outweigh the known and potential risks of the vaccine, for the prevention of COVID-19 in individuals 18 years of age and older.
    https://www.fda.gov/media/144636/download

    The FDA goes on to require the following fact sheet to be provided to vaccine recipients:

    WHAT IS THE MODERNA COVID-19 VACCINE?

    The Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine that may prevent COVID-19. There is no FDA-approved vaccine to prevent COVID-19.

    The FDA has authorized the emergency use of the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine to prevent COVID-19 in individuals 18 years of age and older under an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA).
    https://www.modernatx.com/covid19vaccine-eua/eua-fact-sheet-recipients.pdf
  • All this info leads me to ask one more question. Any info on vaccinated participants who later contracted Covid-19 , as how it effected them, would be appreciated.
    Stay Safe, Derf
  • A quick Google search yielded this :
    A total of 371 out of 715,425 Israelis who passed at least a week after receiving two doses of the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine have contracted the virus – 0.04%, with 16 being sent to the hospital – according to a Health Ministry report released on Thursday.

    Stay Safe, Derf
  • yeah, it remains all emergency use

    I wonder how far off official FDA approval is
  • That is quite good news and the immunity works. Similar to the flu vaccine (~50-60% effective) those who caught flu after vaccinated tend to have a milder case than those who are NOT. The antibody created in the body are working against the virus thus the probability of secondary infection (typically bacterial) occurring are greatly reduced.
  • edited February 14
    Not sure about early data but influenza incidents way down this yr compared to previously (probably because of masks)

    Dr FU stated previously c19 vaccines maybe annual events from now onward
    With so many adverse effects not sure many will take c19 vacc in 2022. Many Healthcare workers report feeling very sick fevers tireness and flu symptoms after 2nd dose...takes 4 6 wks to develop immunity against c19 which may explains reinfection even after 2nd dose vaccines


    In Austin Tx they are staring to vaccinate 60 years or older now or if you have other underling med conditions


    Stay safe
  • Everything is way down, viral and bacterial, from colds to strep; it is quite the lesson of nature and contact and transmissibility.
  • edited February 14
    With so many adverse effects not sure many will take c19 vacc in 2022. Many Healthcare workers report feeling very sick fevers tireness and flu symptoms after 2nd dose...takes 4 6 wks to develop immunity against c19 which may explains reinfection even after 2nd dose vaccines
    Right now the demand for COVID-19 vaccines is way, way out-strip the supply. On the west coast, the sport stadiums are turning into mass vaccination sites. Still people have to wait several hours to get their shots. That data alone should tell you what people want. A young co-worker who did not took the matter serious, just passed way 4 weeks after he got inflected. Side effects from the COVID vaccine shots are similar to those of flu vaccines. On the flip side, the permanent health damage from COVID is significantly worse than anything a flu can bring about. So wearing a mask, practing social distancing and washing hands even after the 2nd shot is a very minor inconvenience.

    Also @Derf's data on Israel vaccination program is highly encouraging. I am looking forward when US to get to that point hopefully later this year.
  • @johnN

    >> With so many adverse effects not sure many will take c19 vacc in 2022. Many Healthcare workers report feeling very sick fevers tireness and flu symptoms after 2nd dose

    You forgot to preface w imho .

    Do I recall correctly that you are in healthcare? Do you give off this vibe on the job? Apologies if my memory is bad.

    Have you had any deaths in your close circle of fam / friends?

    @Sven, +1, and yes, the tide is turning, slowly.
  • JohnN reported "Very small 0.3 - 0.6% side effects treatable vascular side effects like strokes or cardiac issues heart attacks"
    My wife, age 77, went into afib a couple of weeks after her first Moderna vaccine shot -- rapid and erratic heart rate. We went to ER and an Electrocardioversion put her back in sinus rhythm.
    Ten days after her second shot -- back into afib.
    There's no way to be sure that the afib is a result of the shot, but two anecdotes constitute data. Her cardiologist concurs that there have been cases.
    She has a history of afib, resulting from a valve problem and surgery.

    In a way, we hope the vaccine is the trigger. It's better to have a known cause than to fear random problems.
    As for me, I just had one Tylenol day after my second shot.

    My state (Georgia) got off to a slow start but things have improved a lot. Many local pharmacies and Health Departments are have significant involvement.

    I wish I had bought Moderna stock a year ago, when it was $19/share. Now it's $183. I do own a little in FHLC (Fidelity Health Care Index ETF) and some in FBIOX (Fidelity Select BioTech).

    David

  • "With so many adverse effects not sure many will take c19 vacc in 2022. Many Healthcare workers report feeling very sick fevers tireness and flu symptoms after 2nd dose...takes 4 6 wks to develop immunity against c19 which may explains reinfection even after 2nd dose vaccines"

    OK, so let's just take this apart a little...

    "With so many adverse effects".. .
    • Exactly how many, as a percentage of shots given?
    • Can you cite a reliable source for this?

    "Many Healthcare workers report feeling very sick fevers tireness and flu symptoms after 2nd dose."
    • Again, exactly how many, as a percentage of shots given?
    • Again, can you cite a reliable source for this claim?

    "takes 4 6 wks to develop immunity against c19 which may explains reinfection even after 2nd dose vaccines"
    • Exactly what is that supposed to mean? What "reinfection"? Are you stating that people who have already had the virus have become reinfected?

    John, over the years you have compiled quite a record of unreliable, unsubstantiated, or obviously incorrect statements here on MFO, which you present, often completely out of any reasonable context, as "facts".

    While that unenviable record has usually dealt with financial or political matters, I suggest that the issues concerning Covid 19 are far too serious for such careless and unhelpful comments.


  • edited February 15
    oh, OJ, you questioner :)

    David Stone, interesting about prior afib possibly being contraindication for vax (I know this is not what you are saying), although covid has cardiac consequences too, not only carditis but all sorts of endothelial involvement and impaired endothelium function, thromboses, etc. v sorry to hear of your spouse and her two instances.

    We all shoulda bought Moderna and the others, yes.
  • edited February 15
    It is never too late to buy Moderna and Pfizer stocks. I think health care funds/ETFs will do well for years to come. Pfizer stands to make over $10 billions per year for COVID-19 vaccine, and the battle has just began.
  • I suppose it depends on whether one is counting all adverse reactions or just severe ones.

    According to the CDC, data from clinical trials show that 41.9% of those (aged 18-55) receiving vaccines and keeping logs (2,291 subjects for first dose) experienced some level of headaches after their first Pfizer dose and 51.7% after their second dose.

    Of course one needs to compare these percentages with those of the 2298 subjects receiving placebos.

    Other reactions experienced (first/second doses):
    Fatigue: 47.4% / 59.4%
    Chills: 24.0% / 35.1%
    Fever: 3.7% / 15.8%
    Diarrhea: 11.1% / 10.4%
    New or worsening muscle pain: 21.3% / 37.3%
    New or worsening joint pain: 11.0% / 21.9%

    Pfizer reactions; https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/reactogenicity.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-manufacturer/pfizer/reactogenicity.html

    Moderna reactions: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/moderna/reactogenicity.html

  • An extra note: even after her first afib episode and its treatment, my wife's cardiologist said "You must get the second shot".

    The danger of Covid outweighs the side effects of the vaccine.

    David
  • Which was my source for the CDC links with real data. The Atlantic piece, aside from explaining why these vaccines (and Moderna in particular) elicit side effects, is anectdotal.
  • dstone42 said:

    An extra note: even after her first afib episode and its treatment, my wife's cardiologist said "You must get the second shot".

    The danger of Covid outweighs the side effects of the vaccine.

    David

    I'm just going to add that I did NOT have an afib reaction to the first shot although I've had afib issues for over ten years. Three ablations, every medication known, etc. Again, anecdotal, but don't just assume that the shot will kick it off. All the reactions seem to be hit-or-miss depending on the individual, and prediction seems unfruitful.
  • Regarding being late to the party in buying the stocks of vaccine makers, consider the example of one high-flyer, NVAX. This company, started about 35 years ago by Johns Hopkins scientists, had never produced a successful vaccine until the current entry in the COVID sweepstakes. Every time there was a scare such as SARS and the like, including the flu, NVAX would be touted as the company most likely to get a vaccine candidate to market. The shares rose and fell (mostly fell) in accordance with the rumors; investors did not profit. I’ll grant you a Présidents Day virtual medal if you stuck with this stock, even when it was under $2, and now have a massive profit. Please give me enough time to inform the foundary that they need to strike a medal.

    My wife and I had sore arms after our first Pfizer shot February 9 and we are scheduled for the second one on March 2. We feel fortunate and are prepared for a day of chills and fever post-shot.
  • @BenWP
    Agree with you about fortunate, regarding the vaccine. Only sore arm here, too.
    I don't expect chills or fever or whatever after 2nd on March 3. We have our "what if" list printed and on display upon a cupboard door.

    As to side effects, well; guess it is up to each as to whether they would choose to have the side effects of COVID. We've opted to avoid that experience if possible. Know of a few folks who "kinda" wonder about getting a vaccination. I opined that perhaps you may be right for yourself and can make a more proper decision after having a tube jammed into your primary airway.
  • Purely anecdotal, of course, but no side effects at all for my wife and me after Moderna shot #1.

    There was a reported incident down in San Diego where several people had reactions immediately after inoculation. The vaccine administration was temporarily halted, but later resumed. Haven't seen any followup info on that, but might have missed it.

    Not aware of any similar reports.
  • My wife and I just had our 2nd Moderna dose. For 12-24 hrs afterwards we both experienced chills, dizzyness, body ache/joint pain, and headaches. Uncomfortable, but tolerable - considering that by the 2nd day we were symptom-free. So for us, the side effects were short-lived. Best to all. - Brian
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