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A uniformly miserable market if you’re long …

edited October 2022 in Other Investing
TROW is sitting around $105 today - off more than 46% YTD. Used to be only Cathie Wood could post those kinds of numbers.:)

I think money managers like TROW worth watching because it may say something about the mood of the retail investor. And it’s not an outlier. Generally, brokers and money managers, especially at the retail level, have been taking a beating all year.

TRBCX (cited briefly in the Barron’s thread) was off 37% YTD as of Friday. Largest holding is AMZ. Its ETF counterpart TCHP is down 2% today - so expect similar for TRBCX.

The war heated up over the weekend with Ukraine (reportedly) damaging a key Russian infrastructure and Moscow retaliating with a barrage of missile attacks on Ukrainian residential areas. Gold, typically a hedge against chaos, responded by falling about $35 from already low YTD levels. Go figure.

There are small pockets of green here and there today - some defensive consumer staples and isolated pockets of commodities - but overall the path of least resistance is down, down, down. Lots of shorting going on I’m sure.



With the NASDAQ now down nearly 33% YTD I thought a visual might be appropriate.

image

Comments

  • I hope they lose their shorts !!
  • Thought everyone, not just you, are having hard time on the equity side. Same goes for most bonds. I thought you are investing in alternatives, and some of which have held up ok. Our MFO contributor, @lynnbolin2021 has a very nice article “black box alternatives”.
    https://mutualfundobserver.com/2022/10/shining-the-light-into-black-box-funds/

    For now I am staying with energy funds, ETFs and commodity futures. Also a healthy dose of treasury and CD ladders and a stable value fund as my cash substitutes. Just want to minimize the drawdown for now and go back in at a later date.

  • Derf said:

    I hope they lose their shorts !!

    good one. me, too.
  • edited October 2022
    Hi @Sven - Wasn’t intended to be a personal gripe. You are right that I hold a big slug of alternative-type funds which has helped reduce losses. I play “around the edges” buying & selling a bit, but no longer post any buys or sells after one reader characterized such posts as “an attempt to look sexy.” Hopefully, my more general takes on the overall market will not elicit such scorn.
  • Derf said:

    I hope they lose their shorts !!

    :) Good one @Derf. At some point they likely will!
  • 3 of my 4 single-stock holdings have turned UP on the day. It doesn't fix the overall pain. @hank is right: a generally uniform NEGATIVE Market, these days. I'm continuing to add to NHYDY in dribs and drabs. Big bump-up TODAY. (Aluminum.) Continuing to watch my junk bonds TUHYX. Below $8.00 now. SEC Yield is over 10%. Buying under current conditions might help reduce the intensity of my nausea, remembering that I initially bought it at just under $10.
    .......And already, PSTL has turned negative, just now.
    PSTL. NHYDY. ET. BHB.

    PRNEX. Natural Resources. Down YTD just -1.67%. But my own "mileage" in that fund is not that good at all. Still 10% of my total.
  • Yeah, I liked that one too. :)
  • edited October 2022
    @hank, always appreciate your sharing of insights on what works and what didn’t. There is no showboating from your posting and I welcome your sharing.
  • A week ago when things seemed to be looking up I asked this question:
    Old_Joe
    October 4
    And the actual reason for this reversal is... "just because" ???
    Never did get an answer on that. Seems like "just because" didn't hold up so good.
  • Sven said:

    @hank, always appreciate your sharing of insights on what works and what didn’t. There is no showboating from your posting and I welcome your sharing.

    Ditto.
  • "Just because..." Ya. "The Madness of Crowds." Easy money is gone. It requires a big dose of fortitude to invest into this market. gotta keep looking forward, rather than back. By definition, a Market won't remain where it is. Then we have to deal with Central Bank activity, besides...
  • edited October 2022
    Thanks guys. That remark was directed towards another board member as I recall. But not nice.

    Markets run in cycles and usually overshoot on both the up and down sides. There are many funds / ETFs that short the overall market or parts of it and it’s natural that many will gravitate to those under current conditions. I subscribe to a newsletter that has been consistently recommending about 12% in SPDN. I played that game for a few months. But with the major indexes now down 20-30% from their highs, it’s not a game I care to play any longer.

    Baring something like 1929, I personally feel the odds are in your favor now if you have a 3-5 year time horizon and own a portfolio of good equity funds. But I could be wrong.

    Re @Sven’s earlier reference to “alternatives”. The only fund I currently hold that meets the strict definition of alternative is NLSAX. But I also include ABRZX and PRPFX in my “alternative” sleeve along with 3 stocks in smaller quantity. Of those, the insurer has had a great year (even with Ivan). But the bank and baker have both lost $$.
  • edited October 2022
    Thank for sharing your alternatives. I too invest in PRPFX after I replaced TMSRX and IAU last year. Also I invest in GPANX (multi-strategies) and PQTAX (managed futures). So far they are holding up much better than those from PRPFX and TMSRX. My goal to have closer to 10% alternatives since their asset correlation are less than 0.5 to that of S&P500 for the last 2.5 years.

    BTW, AQR have a number of alternatives with good returns, but they require $1M even as investor shares.
  • edited October 2022
    PRPFX is one of my oldest holdings. About 15 years. Does tend to track gold a little, so having an off year along with gold. I’m encouraged by today’s market downdraft. The NASDAQ is now almost 33% off YTD. A rough guess is we’ve now reached the half-way point on the way to market bottom. Whew. Quite a ride.
  • @hank: you're thinking -66% off the old high???????
  • edited October 2022
    Crash said:

    @hank: you're thinking -66% off the old high???????

    - From March 2000 to October 2002 the NASDAQ lost more than 70%.

    - From September 2007 to March 2009 the NASDAQ lost more than 50%.


    The NASDAQ is typically more volatile than the S&P or Dow. John Templeton once remarked that a market doesn’t often decline more than 50% from its top and remain at that level for very long. Exceptions have occurred. Japan comes to mind.

    * NASDAQ numbers came from Wikipedia articles. They may not be precise, but I believe them close approximations

    @Crash - My original comment was intended to be light-hearted. I don’t have a number in mind. But I’ll allow for worst case scenarios. There are other things to consider. Down 50% and up 65% in short order is one thing. But down 50% without a snapback is an entirely different matter.
  • yes, absolutely. save us from the latter!
  • edited October 2022
    Couldn’t resist - TROW @ $98 this morning is off 48% for the past year. Any takers? :)

    PS - Only Jeremy Grantham could enjoy this kind of price action.
  • TROW is down sharply on declining AUM
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/t-rowe-price-group-reports-123000033.html

    "T. Rowe Price Group, Inc. (NASDAQ-GS: TROW), today reported preliminary month-end assets under management of $1.23 trillion as of September 30, 2022 (Edit: vs $1.688 trillion, 12/31/22). Preliminary net outflows for the third quarter of 2022 were $24.6 billion, bringing preliminary year-to-date net outflows to $44.6 billion....."
  • edited October 2022
    Thanks Yogi -

    The drop from yesterday (around 5%) was so large I checked first to see if maybe due to a distribution - but doesn’t appear to be. These types of companies are really volatile. I owned a similar one for perhaps a week or two a while back and bailed on it. Never cared for carnival rides!

    Interesting issue here. By some reports, the “big money” exited equities early in the year while the retail crowd hung on. But your info. plus other I’ve seen indicates the Mom & Pop crowd have been fleeing!

    Wow - Add those outflows at TRP to the drop in AUM that would occur naturally from lower bond and stock prices and it’s got to really hurt.
  • @hank, as noted by @LewisBraham article in Barron's Funds Quarterly, the some of the outflows from active funds are going into unlisted CITs, index mutual funds/OEFs and (indexed) ETFs. Among the large money managers, Price has missed 2 revolutions - indexing and ETFs. It will be forced to change its business model, or will become a boutique shop (it is too big for that now).
    https://www.mutualfundobserver.com/discuss/discussion/60139/barron-s-funds-quarterly-2022-q3-october-10-2022#latest
  • edited October 2022
    Wow - Don’t know how I missed that article. A “must-read”.

    Nice summary on your part here. I remember (80s-90s) when customer service there was a delight. Folks would have “paid up” just to deal with such a thorough, competent, client friendly company. Likely they cut back on service to conserve costs while trying to compete on fees with those index funds and ETFs.

    PRWCX with Giroux is a gem, though no longer own it. Having a tough go of it lately - but what isn’t?
  • edited October 2022
    @hank & @yogibearbull Did either of you happen to read WSJ weekend. Jason Zweig had an article that stated since the end of march highs , only .4% of investors had sold equity if I'm I reading that right. Maybe someone happen upon that article & would like to add.
    < After further review the sold equity referred to MF's & ETF's. NOT individual stock holdings. That still puts 99.6 % feeling the pain ! >
    Thanks , Derf
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