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Here's a statement of the obvious: The opinions expressed here are those of the participants, not those of the Mutual Fund Observer. We cannot vouch for the accuracy or appropriateness of any of it, though we do encourage civility and good humor.

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Old_Skeet Says ... Goodbye

13

Comments

  • TheShadow said:

    Article from early 2017 of his scandals including the housing issue in the 70's and in his casino.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/donald-trump-scandals/474726/

    So because of alleged business practices in the 60s and 70s the president is a racist? May I remind you that revered members of the dems were card carrying members of the KKK in their earlier years.
  • Labels. I'm still not hearing a justification from supporters here as to why we should support Trump and vote for him. Because he is utterly devoid of moral character. You mean to say that you WANT a "leader" like that? Look at the past 4 years. "American carnage."
  • wxman123 said:

    While many have suspected and if the people (Barbara Res, Mary Trump, Michael Cohen, et al.) who spent years around Trump are to be believed, and I see no reason why they shouldn't be, Trump, at a minimum, is a racist and anti-Semitic.

    OK, Barbara Res -- held big position in Trump's construction enterprise when few woman held such posts, and now complains he was somehow anti-woman while also saying Trump treated her like the men. He was tough on everyone and said some stupid shit along the way. Sounds like Trump, but no support for him being a racist or anti-Semite.

    Mary Trump -- estranged relative who spoke about the "Trump family" using the "N word" and making anti-Semitic remarks decades ago. I think that's probably true of many such families in that era, and I would suspect the kids of such families didn't object at the time and maybe even "joined in" occasionally. I'd hate to think that kids who grew up in that type of environment were forever branded as racists or anti-Semites. And, this all assumes Mary's version of events is true despite strong denials.



    Michael Cohen -- Give me an F'n break!

    Mr. Waxman, you do not believe Michael Cohen? After all, Donald sure did for the 12 years that he was his personal attorney, VP of the Trump Organization, co-president of Trump Entertainment, and a board member of the Eric Trump Foundation.


    et al. -- You need to be more specific.

    Nope. I already completed half of your homework. You can do the rest. Or not.

  • Old Skeet will be missed by many.;myself included/ How this board could be so slanted towards the hate America crowd is beyond me. Wait until you see what total tighter control is really like.I saw it in the old Soviet Union in 1974 and 1978/When you need a permit for ANYTHING you want to do- you ll regret your Democrat vote.Why vote for a party that wants to look up your backside morning noon and night???Some people like to be told what to do= that lets me out!!!
  • It would appear that BennyB has drunk the Repugnant Party Kool-Aid. This is still the USA. Not Soviet Russia. The Scandinavians use a hybrid economic system: capitalist/socialist. Seems to work fine. I hear nothing about anyone feeling oppressed there. And they also have what we STILL don't have: universal HEALTHCARE.
  • +1 Crash Yes-36 of the 37 OECD countries have universal healthcare(although Mexico,Colombia and Greece probably wouldn't be your top choices) Non OECD countries like Uruguay and Costa Rica also have it. One guess as to the outlier !
  • edited September 9
    carew388 said:

    +1 Crash Yes-36 of the 37 OECD countries have universal healthcare(although Mexico,Colombia and Greece probably wouldn't be your top choices) Non OECD countries like Uruguay and Costa Rica also have it. One guess as to the outlier !

    President Trump has promised the American people a “terrific,” “phenomenal” and “fantastic” new health care plan to replace the Affordable Care Act. This plan should come to fruition in just a few short weeks!

    Link
  • Having Jewish relations / relationships / relatives / friends has about zilch to do w being antisemitic, or not. Trump is a known and acknowledged bigot on any number of fronts.
  • Having Jewish relations / relationships / relatives / friends has about zilch to do w being antisemitic, or not. Trump is a known and acknowledged bigot on any number of fronts.

    I'll take the other side of this one. l would think it unusual to have many Jewish friends and relatives and still be a legitimate anti-Semite. Again, show me proof, not David Duke links. I was way more concerned with Obama's association with "god damn america" Jeremiah Wright and other America haters and terrorists. I wonder what sleepy Joe had to say about that.
  • edited September 10
    It seems to me that a person of integrity and character--- and MATURITY--- should be able to work with many different sorts of people. Gotta get a job done. Let's do it. The New Democrat Party leader in Canada has Sikh roots. Would that "play in Peoria?" If he were to try to win elected office on this side of the border? Hypothetical, ya. But you could forget about a great many districts/States from the get-go. There were a big buncha folks who had a huge problem with a Hawaiian-born President. "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others." (Orwell, "Animal Farm.") https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagmeet_Singh
  • Mr. Waxman, you took the wrong side. Overwhelmingly, American Jews do not support Trump. Do you want some proof that he is a legitimate anti-Semite?

    Let's start with a bit of his slobber to the Republican Jewish Coalition in December 2015.

    "Stupidly, you want to give money. …You’re not going to support me because I don’t want your money."

    "I’m a negotiator, like you folks."

    "Is there anyone in this room who doesn’t negotiate deals? Probably more than any room I’ve ever spoken."


    As Matthew Rozsa wrote in the Quartz in March 2016:

    "An America in which either Trump or one of his movement's successors ascends to National power would be a country driven by hate."



  • Mona said:

    Mr. Waxman, you took the wrong side. Overwhelmingly, American Jews do not support Trump. Do you want some proof that he is a legitimate anti-Semite?

    Let's start with a bit of his slobber to the Republican Jewish Coalition in December 2015.

    "Stupidly, you want to give money. …You’re not going to support me because I don’t want your money."

    "I’m a negotiator, like you folks."

    "Is there anyone in this room who doesn’t negotiate deals? Probably more than any room I’ve ever spoken."


    As Matthew Rozsa wrote in the Quartz in March 2016:

    "An America in which either Trump or one of his movement's successors ascends to National power would be a country driven by hate."




    I guess we just run in different circles. MIne is a very diverse group that includes Blacks, Jews and Hispanics among my best friends, people I see all the time, eat with, travel with, etc. I see no hate among us. Every one of them is a Trump supporter while recognizing the stupid way he conducts himself. A very frequent refrain is that if Trump would just shut up, not tweet and not snatch up every piece of bait thrown his way he is doing a good job overall. I get it, some people can't overlook the way he conducts himself, fair enough. Personally, (and within much of my group too) I'm no die hard Trumper and a solid dem could get my vote. But Biden just isn't that guy. I'm way more concerned by the influence of the "Squad" and Bernie then worrying about whether Trump can be proven an anti-Semite -- especially since he has DONE nothing as a policy in that direction, and support Israel (even if only to please evangelicals). I don't see Trump as worse than Hitler nor likely to put Blacks on the Plantation (as some here seem to fear). Rather I see this as an election between policies I mainly support and those I don't. I suggest most people will cast their votes accordingly, and I think Trump will pull this one out on that basis. Time will tell.
  • wxman123 said:

    Mona said:

    Mr. Waxman, you took the wrong side. Overwhelmingly, American Jews do not support Trump. Do you want some proof that he is a legitimate anti-Semite?

    Let's start with a bit of his slobber to the Republican Jewish Coalition in December 2015.

    "Stupidly, you want to give money. …You’re not going to support me because I don’t want your money."

    "I’m a negotiator, like you folks."

    "Is there anyone in this room who doesn’t negotiate deals? Probably more than any room I’ve ever spoken."


    As Matthew Rozsa wrote in the Quartz in March 2016:

    "An America in which either Trump or one of his movement's successors ascends to National power would be a country driven by hate."




    I guess we just run in different circles. MIne is a very diverse group that includes Blacks, Jews and Hispanics among my best friends, people I see all the time, eat with, travel with, etc. I see no hate among us. Every one of them is a Trump supporter while recognizing the stupid way he conducts himself. A very frequent refrain is that if Trump would just shut up, not tweet and not snatch up every piece of bait thrown his way he is doing a good job overall. I get it, some people can't overlook the way he conducts himself, fair enough. Personally, (and within much of my group too) I'm no die hard Trumper and a solid dem could get my vote. But Biden just isn't that guy. I'm way more concerned by the influence of the "Squad" and Bernie then worrying about whether Trump can be proven an anti-Semite -- especially since he has DONE nothing as a policy in that direction, and support Israel (even if only to please evangelicals). I don't see Trump as worse than Hitler nor likely to put Blacks on the Plantation (as some here seem to fear). Rather I see this as an election between policies I mainly support and those I don't. I suggest most people will cast their votes accordingly, and I think Trump will pull this one out on that basis. Time will tell.


    https://lincolnproject.us/video/parasite/

  • @wxman123

    You have black friends who support and are going to vote for Trump? and think he is doing a 'good job overall'?

    A major pity you say you could vote for a solid Dem but are not going to do so ... because ... policies?
  • edited September 10
    @wxman123 A hilariously cliched response: "But some of my best friends are blacks and Jews...." https://nytimes.com/2019/02/16/sunday-review/ralph-northam-blackface-friends.html
  • edited September 10
    Well, 30 or 40 years ago I attended a sensitivity training workshop in which we were asked to complete a questionnaire designed to tell if we were racist or not. To my surprise, I failed it. Obviously I’ve worked over subsequent years to become even more accepting of people of different backgrounds than mine - racial, ethnic and otherwise. My thought is that rather than a clearly definable black/white grouping, racism (intolerance) exists more or less along an unconscious continuum with most people falling somewhere in between the edges. Maybe there’s some sociologists here who could explain it better.

    The best eye-opener I know of re anti-semitism and its association with authoritarian (and entertaining as well) is the play Cabaret portraying life in pre-Nazi / Nazi Germany prior to WW II. The themes of Antisemitism and nationalism dominate first, followed by absolute obedience to the totalitarian state. (Hitler to me represented the symptom rather than the illness.) I was fortunate to see the play performed at Studio 54 in NYC three times during its run sometime around 2017. I’ve seen the film, staring Liza Minnelli, once. It’s fine but not equal the play. I highly recommend either. Wish I could send every American a copy. A picture (in this case a motion picture) really is worth 1000 words.

    The politics of Cabaret and Why They Matter http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/opinion/columnists/the-politics-of-cabaret-and-why-they-matter-1.23177255

    Why Cabaret Packs a Harsh Political Punch https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-cabaret-packs-a-harsh-political-punch
  • @wxman123

    You have black friends who support and are going to vote for Trump? and think he is doing a 'good job overall'?

    A major pity you say you could vote for a solid Dem but are not going to do so ... because ... policies?

    Absolutely. I know many people who happen to be black and support Trump. That doesn't mean they don't think he says some awfully stupid things. He does. But I (and they) by and large support his policies on such matters as the border; right to life; china; NATO members paying their fair share; lower taxes; conservative judges, opportunity zones, the move to Jerusalem, fracking, calling out riots for being, well, riots, etc. Anyone can fairly disagree on any or all of these matters, but they are matters upon which reasonable people can disagree no matter their race. There is no doubt that many people will vote along traditional lines -- they will vote Dem (or R) without really asking why. But among people who can seriously discuss politics you'd be surprised who supports Trump despite his very obvious shortcomings. If the dems ran a Bill Clinton type (absent the moral issues) he would get a very serious look. As to Biden, come on. This is your best candidate? 47 years in politics and what has he really done? What he says he will do now I don't like, and the ideas being advanced by the far left in his party are repugnant to me. And, I do think he has slipped cognitively from what I can see.
    If the dems think that only white rednecks, racists and stupid people support Trump (like some on this forum seem to think) then I suspect it's going to be a very tough night for them on Nov 3. Just like last time.

  • Maybe David can sell adds here with all the heat, posts and new views MFO is generating!!

    I wonder how much of this would go on if we Zoomed each other and talked in person.

    Anybody wanta try it?
  • wxman123

    Agree with your thoughts and that is why I will vote for Trump and not Biden. The socialist left of the vice presidential choice to far out there for me.
  • edited September 10
    zoom. No, too much like work. ... "And, I do think he has slipped cognitively from what I can see..." Trump Kool-Aid nonsense. "The best argument against democracy is a 5-minute conversation with the average voter." Sounds to me very often that Joe's dentures are slipping, that's all. I don't think that's a REAL problem. He certainly has the necessary experience. And, unlike the tRumpster, he clearly and obviously owns a conscience, and is a deeply HUMAN being.
  • The tone of disagreement from the Republican side here has gotten more civil. I appreciate this. It makes dialog possible.

    When Trump took office his spokesman S Miller announced that the new president "will not be questioned". In my opinion this was an announcement of the intention to change our country from a democracy to an authoritarian dictatorship. It is beyond my understanding how anyone can vote for a person who deliberately sabotages the workings of his own nation's postal service, encourages his supporters to vote twice and to break the law in other ways when it's a law he doesn't like, and who separates children from their parents and locks them in cages.

    As for Kamala Harris, she's a centrist. She's a career prosecutor. She has spent her career upholding the law. Biden is also a centrist. An inspiring figure? Hardly. Competent? Certainly more than Trump. That's why I'm voting Democratic.
  • Crash said:

    zoom. No, too much like work. ... "And, I do think he has slipped cognitively from what I can see..." Trump Kool-Aid nonsense. "The best argument against democracy is a 5-minute conversation with the average voter." Sounds to me very often that Joe's dentures are slipping, that's all. I don't think that's a REAL problem. He certainly has the necessary experience. And, unlike the tRumpster, he clearly and obviously owns a conscience, and is a deeply HUMAN being.

    I guess we will see what happens when JB doesn't have a teleprompter at the debates. Just saw a JB spokesman refuse to answer Bret Baier's direct question whether JB used a teleprompter to answer questions at a town hall. LOL if he did, and of course he did. Not only did his own staff think such a move was necessary, but it's downright dishonest. A town hall is to see a candidate answer questions without assistance.
  • .......Still no response from Trumpers here as to the existence of a soul, a conscience, within the Orange Shell. And still no response re: why it makes sense to vote for anyone who has so demonstrably shown that he possesses no conscience and is incapable of compassion. And has no moral compass. No takers? The question is: why is that OK with you?
  • Crash said:

    .......Still no response from Trumpers here as to the existence of a soul, a conscience, within the Orange Shell. And still no response re: why it makes sense to vote for anyone who has so demonstrably shown that he possesses no conscience and is incapable of compassion. And has no moral compass. No takers? The question is: why is that OK with you?

    All humans are flawed, and you speak in absolutes that cannot be addressed other than with a contrary opinion. No conscience, no compassion, no moral compass. These are all your opinions. One could say the exact same thing about Bill Clinton based on his admitted conduct. Over the course of 4 years I think Trump did a good job. So do millions of other people; get over your disbelief that people can think Trump did a good job, especially on the economy, keeping the country safe from terror, killing terrorists, supporting Israel, just for example.
    I'm going to judge a person more on what he/she does rather than what they say, or others say about them based largely on innuendo and suspicion. OTOH, I don't like the policies of Biden and, especially, the far left that has taken over your party. There's your answer.
  • @wxman123

    this should cheer you up as to the election; from Twitter

    \\\ horrifying amount of MAGA merch I saw driving across the country last week (including Trump 2020 “Fuck Your Feelings” & “Do the White Thing” signs)

    I say y'all should secede and just go cope. Majority rule and all that good stuff. Just go.
  • Great question @Crash. It seems to some, a countries moral standing is no competition next to generating perceived wealth. And even with that, people fool themselves or are swayed by their media source that one party generates more wealth benefit than the next for the average joe or middle class. One party surely benefits the already ultra rich though at the expense of poor average joe. Socialists? That is a scare term used by one party against another.
  • @wxman123

    this should cheer you up as to the election; from Twitter

    \\\ horrifying amount of MAGA merch I saw driving across the country last week (including Trump 2020 “Fuck Your Feelings” & “Do the White Thing” signs)

    I say y'all should secede and just go cope. Majority rule and all that good stuff. Just go.


    So you're saying that if I support Trump I'm a racist not welcome in YOUR country? And, then in the next post you'll claim that it's Trump who is so divisive. Now I get it.


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